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Started By
Message
re: Should Men Be able to Opt out of Fatherhood?
Posted on 3/10/16 at 10:33 am to SidewalkDawg
Posted on 3/10/16 at 10:33 am to SidewalkDawg
quote:
Children are the losers in all of this and men arguing for the right to walk away from any responsibility is detrimental. We shouldn't lower ourselves to that standard.
how active do you think men that would consider this are in their kids lives today anyways?
you think forcing them to provide $500/month for the mom to buy whatever she wants is doing anything?
1
Posted on 3/10/16 at 10:35 am to Salmon
quote:
how active do you think men that would consider this are in their kids lives today anyways?
IMO, the role of fatherhood has already been cheapened significantly in some cultures.
Posted on 3/10/16 at 10:35 am to SuperSaint
quote:
Why are people bribing up 'pos' and stuff of that nature?
Your feelings of someone personally or anyone else's feelings mean shite in the situation being discussed.
frick the moral standpoint
Because it's true. There are two types of people in this world. Those who take responsibility for their actions, and POS people.
Posted on 3/10/16 at 10:38 am to SidewalkDawg
quote:
Because SOMEONE has to be held to a higher standard. Children are the losers in all of this and men arguing for the right to walk away from any responsibility is detrimental. We shouldn't lower ourselves to that standard.
This isn't a moral discussion about what's "right & wrong".
The discussion focuses on the inequalities between a man and a woman as it pertains to reproductive rights.
It is hypocritical to allow a woman 100% of the rights based on a potential 9 months of carrying an unborn child. Whereas the man gets 0% of the rights and is financially obligated for a disproportionate 216 months.
The system reeks of hypocrisy and is rigged against men.
I personally would not walk away, and I would expect any self respecting female to not walk away via abortion either.
But that's not the discussion at hand.
Posted on 3/10/16 at 10:39 am to dewster
quote:
The fairness, responsibility, and equality aspects of this debate are entirely independent from the elements that weigh what is best for society.
^
Posted on 3/10/16 at 10:42 am to Freauxzen
quote:
As long as abortion is legal, men should be able to legally opt out (they are still scum, this isn't the point however)
If abortion was illegal, then men should NOT be able to legally opt out.
this.
i hate women who abort for convenience reasons and men who are deadbeat equally the same.
What i like is:
that a woman not wanting to mess with it = choice/freedom.
a man not wanting to mess with it = sleazy/deadbeat/dirtbag.
Posted on 3/10/16 at 10:48 am to Swoopin
quote:
The glaring difference is that legally aborting a child does not spare the world the burden of supporting said child.
Good post. However:
Let's note that Sweden, and the rest of Scandinavia, have a shrinking population. They need more new citizens, and have a much better education and welfare system than the US. A child of a single parent is just not as big of a burden over there. I agree with your premise, but we cannot forget that Swedens socioeconomic climate is much different than the US, and the rest of the world for That matter.
Posted on 3/10/16 at 11:08 am to OceanMan
Made it through the first 4 or so pages of this and noticed something curious. Those supporting the current system of inequalities concerning reproductive rights (i.e. the "feminist" or pro-woman slant, for lack of a better term) keep repeating "but, but, but there ARE differences in the sexes! Deal with it!".
I wonder if they'd be so quick to accept these biological differences in shaping public policy when it comes to women in combat, employment roles, Title IX issues, education, etc. ?
I wonder if they'd be so quick to accept these biological differences in shaping public policy when it comes to women in combat, employment roles, Title IX issues, education, etc. ?
Posted on 3/10/16 at 11:09 am to OceanMan
If a woman knew that the father would have absolutely no financial involvement, how many of these "dead beat" dads would no longer be dads? How many women have these babies or don't put them up for adoption because of the expected child support?
Additionally, just because you opt out of being a father legally does not mean that you 100% opt out of it financially. How many wealthy guys get a girl pregnant on accident and they know its a payday? It is doing the child an injustice if the mom wants the baby to get "paid", this would certainly stop a pretty decent portion of 1 parent children from being born or not given up for adoption if the mother knows from the beginning it is solely on her. That's a lot of stress frankly, especially for any mother that already has a child and knows the burden.
Additionally, just because you opt out of being a father legally does not mean that you 100% opt out of it financially. How many wealthy guys get a girl pregnant on accident and they know its a payday? It is doing the child an injustice if the mom wants the baby to get "paid", this would certainly stop a pretty decent portion of 1 parent children from being born or not given up for adoption if the mother knows from the beginning it is solely on her. That's a lot of stress frankly, especially for any mother that already has a child and knows the burden.
Posted on 3/10/16 at 11:31 am to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
I wonder if they'd be so quick to accept these biological differences in shaping public policy when it comes to women in combat, employment roles, Title IX issues, education, etc. ?
I'm betting no. Which is the entire point of this thread, hypocrisy.
Posted on 3/10/16 at 11:33 am to Hog on the Hill
quote:
Yeah, that's biology for you. Deal with it.
if only men could use this reasoning with women without being called an a-hole or some other name
Posted on 3/10/16 at 11:34 am to Freauxzen
Personally, I think birth control and condoms should be given out free from the government in high schools, colleges, medical clinics, planned parenthood, etc.
It should be absurdly easy to get it.
That would be cheaper than all of these unwanted babies on welfare.
Which brings me to my next point, stop giving extra welfare to single parents after their first child. On top of that, layer more legislation restricting what child support and welfare can be spent on. This would help prevent women from having more welfare babies or child support babies.
It should be absurdly easy to get it.
That would be cheaper than all of these unwanted babies on welfare.
Which brings me to my next point, stop giving extra welfare to single parents after their first child. On top of that, layer more legislation restricting what child support and welfare can be spent on. This would help prevent women from having more welfare babies or child support babies.
This post was edited on 3/10/16 at 11:36 am
Posted on 3/10/16 at 11:52 am to Brosef Stalin
dumb.
not the same.
not the same.
Posted on 3/10/16 at 11:58 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:
Personally, I think birth control and condoms should be given out free from the government in high schools, colleges, medical clinics, planned parenthood, etc
because this makes for a better future?
stupid people do stupid things, nothing's going to change that. However, the more people who are seen suffering for their stupidity, the less likely those moderately stupid people follow the stupid's lead.
example: Bike helmet
Dumb kid jumps ramp with helmet on, falls off and isn't hurt because of helmet. Three of his less-stupid friends decide to try ramp too. Now you have 4 people taking risky actions versus 1
alt scenario: stupid kid's brains are all over the ground....moderates tell stories of how you should never jump a ramp. 1 less stupid in the world, and 3 people less likely to be stupid.
ta-dah....without consequence there can be no wisdom gained.
Posted on 3/10/16 at 12:16 pm to SabiDojo
quote:
She signs a form for the state to pay for her medical expenses and the hospital will have on the form a question. "Do you know who the father is?"
quote:
The moment that is paid, DHS goes after the dad for payment.
Fortunately, she's pretty independent... She has a good job, with nice benefits. Not some government money sucking baby mamma...
This post was edited on 3/10/16 at 12:18 pm
Posted on 3/10/16 at 12:29 pm to Brosef Stalin
quote:
You could just not get a girl pregnant
And the woman has no responsibility?
Posted on 3/10/16 at 12:31 pm to Hog on the Hill
quote:
Yeah, that's biology for you. Deal with it.
What if the man doesn't "identify" as a father?
Clearly biology doesn't mean jack shite as it pertains to gender identity. Does the same idea apply to parental status?
Posted on 3/10/16 at 1:30 pm to ApexTiger
quote:
And the woman has no responsibility
I think that's what the feminist movement has turned into. It some extreme cases, it's morphed into a war against responsibility.
Both parents have a responsibility to the child. The mother can opt out of her responsibility.
This post was edited on 3/10/16 at 1:32 pm
Posted on 3/10/16 at 3:55 pm to member12
Given the advances in birth control, pregnancy can be avoided if either party takes appropriate precautions. You don't want to be a father, control your seed. You can do it all by yourself.
The problem arises when the guy trusts the woman to handle it. Can't trust 'em.??
The problem arises when the guy trusts the woman to handle it. Can't trust 'em.??
Posted on 3/10/16 at 3:56 pm to Hangover Haven
quote:
Fortunately, she's pretty independent... She has a good job, with nice benefits. Not some government money sucking baby mamma...
Word. Word.
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