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Posted on 1/19/22 at 10:48 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Normal adults who like what America was and like the idea of a strong leader who puts America first will undoubtedly have some grudging respect for Putin.
The intelligent ones will realize people in Russia generally aren't living their best lives under Putin, that Putin is an authoritarian, and that the minimal positives don't outweigh the negatives.
The dumb ones will go all "rah rah Russia" because he appeals to their base instincts - tough, patriotic, etc., everything else they'll gloss over.
Of course, on the opposite end of the spectrum you have weak she-men who hate Putin but won't say a disparaging word about someone like Chavez, Castro, etc.
agree 1000x. normal adults will also stop and think
quote:
Russia ruled Ukraine when we were still a British Colony.
Russia ruled Ukraine when we fought our Civil War.
Russia ruled Ukraine when we fought two world wars.
It didn’t effect us then and it won’t effect us now, at least unless we decide to let it. Bottom line is what goes on between Russia and Ukraine is between Russia and Ukraine.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 10:49 am to lsu777
quote:If they cared so much, Russia wouldn’t be such a significant source of fuel for the EU.
if the europeans cared so much, then why do they not meet their defense spending obligations?
The EU doesn’t care.
Why should we?
Posted on 1/19/22 at 10:51 am to Scruffy
quote:
If they cared so much, Russia wouldn’t be such a significant source of fuel for the EU.
The EU doesn’t care.
Why should we?
exactly, same with taiwan...they dont even spend the allocated 3% for defense.
frick all of them. they made their bed....they can sleep in it. Big daddy isnt coming to save them.
:cheers:
Posted on 1/19/22 at 10:51 am to lsu777
quote:
as far as the global economy and global interests....jesus could you buy into the globalist bull shite anymore
There has to be a market for American products. We're only 400 million people and have a GDP larger than the rest of the world combined. Somebody is buying our stuff. If they stop, we go into a depression.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 10:52 am to lsu777
I'll be honest, I like the geopolitical maneuvering and subterfuge for entertainment and historical significance. But obviously that doesn't warrant unnecessarily tying ourself to a conflict that will inevitably become a millstone around our neck.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 10:53 am to Dawgwithnoname
quote:
There has to be a market for American products. We're only 400 million people and have a GDP larger than the rest of the world combined. Somebody is buying our stuff. If they stop, we go into a depression.
i didnt say there didnt have have to be. but we also could stop importation of a lot of bullshite and supply domestically to make up much of that.
then the other...we dont have to go to war over that shite. compete and be the low cost provider so that market forces bear out other countries buying your shite.
also there are other markets in other countries.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 10:55 am to Pettifogger
quote:
I'll be honest, I like the geopolitical maneuvering and subterfuge for entertainment and historical significance. But obviously that doesn't warrant unnecessarily tying ourself to a conflict that will inevitably become a millstone around our neck.
yea i have no problem with us trying to use diplomacy to stop/end the conflict....but no money, no equipment, no soldiers and honestly no taking sides. period. stay neutral and negotiate with putin to see what he wants. if we can provide it without compromising our interest and values, you provide it with him providing certain things in return.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 10:56 am to beerJeep
quote:
He fiendishly cut the heads off of turnips like they were trying to rape his little sister.
Good. He knows that’s a job for the Bidens.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 11:01 am to Decatur
quote:
Keep sending military weapons and supplies.
Have we learned nothing in Vietnam or Afghanistan? We should either be all in or all out. (in this case all out). Proxy wars are why we're trillions in debt and all for nothing. If its not worth me or you sending our sons overseas to possibly die, then its not worth getting involved in at all.
If we go to war, there should be only one goal-totally wiping out the enemy as fiercely and fast as possible, turn around and come back, and leave a big burning pile of ashes behind and don't look back. There's no way to win this mess in Ukraine, just to prop up another eventual loser for a decade or 2.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 11:10 am to EvrybodysAllAmerican
quote:
Have we learned nothing in Vietnam or Afghanistan? We should either be all in or all out. (in this case all out). Proxy wars are why we're trillions in debt and all for nothing. If its not worth me or you sending our sons overseas to possibly die, then its not worth getting involved in at all.
If we go to war, there should be only one goal-totally wiping out the enemy as fiercely and fast as possible, turn around and come back, and leave a big burning pile of ashes behind and don't look back. There's no way to win this mess in Ukraine, just to prop up another eventual loser for a decade or 2.
well frick bro....doesnt sound like you left alot of room for politicians to make money, so guess its not gonna happen
but yea its like we keep doing same thing over and over and over again and each time expecting a different result. its freaking maddening.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 11:16 am to EvrybodysAllAmerican
quote:
Have we learned nothing in Vietnam or Afghanistan? We should either be all in or all out. (in this case all out). Proxy wars are why we're trillions in debt and all for nothing.
We had boots on the ground in both of those wars.
Our most recent proxy war, Afghanistan in the 80's, was a resounding success and that success was against the same adversary we're facing now.
Russia is poor. They don't want to get into a pissing match with the West. Rather, they shouldn't want to get into a pissing match with the West. But Putin is Putin.
If you read geopolitical experts trying to figure out what Putin is doing, they are all scratching their heads. There's no end goal in sight. He can't hold Ukraine, doesn't have the money or troops. His actions are strengthening the NATO bond and he now has other countries talking about joining. Ukraine, on the whole, is not welcoming Russia.
What is he doing? What are his aims? He's floundering, it seems...grasping at one last straw.
Alternatively, he was bluffing this whole time, has now gotten called on it, and is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Time for that little bitch to back away with his tail stuck between his legs.
This post was edited on 1/19/22 at 11:19 am
Posted on 1/19/22 at 11:19 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
Afghanistan in the 80's, was a resounding success and that success was against the same adversary we're facing now.
Once again you ignore that this “resounding success” directly led to our own disastrous Afghanistan debacle. Shitty proxy wars only create more enemies down the line.
You also continue to ignore the fact that Afghanistan in the 80’s and modern Ukraine have literally nothing in common.
This post was edited on 1/19/22 at 11:20 am
Posted on 1/19/22 at 11:20 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
We had boots on the ground in both of those wars.
Just not yours, right?
Where was it you did battle again, Mr. MmmmmmmmVeteran?
Posted on 1/19/22 at 11:22 am to lsu777
quote:
compete and be the low cost provider so that market forces bear out other countries buying your shite.
So do away with minimum wage and labor unions?
I'm in.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 11:22 am to Indefatigable
quote:
Once again you ignore that this “resounding success” directly led to our own disastrous Afghanistan debacle. You also continue to ignore the fact that Afghanistan in the 80’s and modern Ukraine have literally nothing in common.
I'm not going to smear what was a very successful proxy war in the 80's due to extreme mismanagement of the Mujahadeen by the US State Dept in the 90's.
You're right. A more populous Ukraine armed and trained by the West will be a greater challenge for the Russians.
Again, Putin has to know he can't hold Ukraine if the Ukrainians are armed to the gill by the West and use guerilla warfare. What is he trying to accomplish? Or, is it that he was bluffing and is now caught?
Posted on 1/19/22 at 11:23 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
If you read geopolitical experts trying to figure out what Putin is doing, they are all scratching their heads. There's no end goal in sight. He can't hold Ukraine, doesn't have the money or troops. His actions are strengthening the NATO bond and he now has other countries talking about joining. Ukraine, on the whole, is not welcoming Russia.
What is he doing? What are his aims? He's floundering, it seems...grasping at one last straw.
Alternatively, he was bluffing this whole time, has now gotten called on it, and is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Time for that little bitch to back away with his tail stuck between his legs.
I share these thoughts.
Posted on 1/19/22 at 11:25 am to fr33manator
quote:
Where was it you did battle again, Mr. MmmmmmmmVeteran?
I'm a USAF vet who worked in Combat Communications, specifically mobile Satellite and Wideband communications.
Heard of Prince Sultan Air Base? I helped set up initial comms satellite and wideband comms there. Also did another bid at Ali Al Saleem in Kuwait on the Iraqi border supporting Army comms.
Where'd you serve?
Posted on 1/19/22 at 11:26 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
Also did another bid at Ali Al Saleem in Kuwait
My condolences.
The chairforce DFAC there was legit though.
I worked with a bunch of your counterparts from USAFE for a couple years when I was a comms planner for USAREUR G6.
My background was also SATCOM, just on the Army side. Some of your flyaway packages were pretty damn cool.
This post was edited on 1/19/22 at 11:29 am
Posted on 1/19/22 at 11:27 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
Again, Putin has to know he can't hold Ukraine if the Ukrainians are armed to the gill by the West and use guerilla warfare. What is he trying to accomplish? Or, is it that he was bluffing and is now caught?
Why do you postulate this bullshite instead of come to the obvious, common sense conclusion? He wants a buffer state there.
He isn’t bluffing because he was never going to invade Ukraine. Only the western media thinks that he is, or that he ever intended to. It’s a diplomatic chess game on arms negotiations and NATO deployments in Eastern Europe.
quote:
I'm not going to smear what was a very successful proxy war in the 80's due to extreme mismanagement of the Mujahadeen by the US State Dept in the 90's.
Well of course not, it’s inconvenient for your ridiculous 1960’s good vs evil worldview.
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