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re: Operator vs. Engineer?
Posted on 7/23/20 at 9:20 am to 50_Tiger
Posted on 7/23/20 at 9:20 am to 50_Tiger
quote:
The question you should be asking is who has the better quality of life?
THIS. Working half your weekends with kids growing up along with not being at the supper table with your family blows.
Did a total of 35+ years. 
1
Posted on 7/23/20 at 9:21 am to eScott
quote:
I felt bad for him because he wasn't qualified for anything but being an operator, he was stuck where he was.
I have buddies who gave me hell for leaving the plants and going to school. They get pissy when I send them pics of me fishing multiple times a week. They make good money but don't have time to spend it on experiences so they end up buying f250s and snorkeled fourwheelers.
They are stuck where they are at especially since they have to maintain their expensive lifestyles. They also sit in control rooms and talk to other operators all day so they come up with some of the dumbest shite you've ever heard. Basically an echo chamber of folks without (generally speaking) much education or folks who aren't well read. There's a few who are some of the smartest people I know, though.
This post was edited on 7/23/20 at 9:23 am
Posted on 7/23/20 at 9:22 am to Loup
quote:
They also sit in control rooms and talk to other operators all day so they come up with some of the dumbest shite you've ever heard. Basically an echo chamber of folks without (generally speaking) much education.
Kinda like the OT Lounge here?
Posted on 7/23/20 at 9:24 am to Lonnie Utah
quote:
Kinda like the OT Lounge here?
I have to come off as reasonably intelligent at work all day. It's nice to be an idiot on the internet every now and then.
Posted on 7/23/20 at 9:26 am to Loup
quote:
claims to have made 150k last year. He did work 3000 hours though
3000 of OT??
Posted on 7/23/20 at 9:30 am to Whoopdedo_LSU
quote:
chemical engineer
quote:
Probably start out at 90k or so. That’s 40 hrs a wk no overtime and sitting in the office. More if they go out to the site and work from there.
And, a Chem-E can get a job outside of the oil industry if/when the market goes bust.
Posted on 7/23/20 at 9:50 am to eScott
The biggest difference is ceiling and options over a 30-40 year career.
Operators make a great living and deal with difficult schedules that have benefits such as long hooks, but have drawbacks with being on call and holidays, nights, weekends. The base pay is good ($75K-$100K) and the OT upside is great and can easily push them to $150K-$250K. The ceiling is as good as that overtime is and over a career if you are interested in a potential game changing career step it isn't likely in the field. You can bounce around companies, technologies, roles, etc and join staff, but variability is quite limited.
Many (most) Engineers start out in the $80-$100K range, work the required hours, do a decent job and get an incremental raise every year at 1.5%-3%. Some are ambitious, successful and accept additional risks by moving around and taking on difficult assignments in different functions, specialized roles or leadership positions and the upside can pretty quickly jump up into the $250,000-$750,000 range.
Some of this is unknown to most people within a company, but once you advance to a certain haypoint level it activates things like base bonus percentage increases in the 30-50% level, stock options, deferred stock and other retirement pledges that overnight can take you from a $130,000 salary to $400,000+ which only grows more significant as you progress further.
For me Chemical Engineering was more about options, long term growth potential, quality of life as I moved into my late 40s and beyond and a high ceiling as opposed to the amount I made the first few years of my tenure.
Operators make a great living and deal with difficult schedules that have benefits such as long hooks, but have drawbacks with being on call and holidays, nights, weekends. The base pay is good ($75K-$100K) and the OT upside is great and can easily push them to $150K-$250K. The ceiling is as good as that overtime is and over a career if you are interested in a potential game changing career step it isn't likely in the field. You can bounce around companies, technologies, roles, etc and join staff, but variability is quite limited.
Many (most) Engineers start out in the $80-$100K range, work the required hours, do a decent job and get an incremental raise every year at 1.5%-3%. Some are ambitious, successful and accept additional risks by moving around and taking on difficult assignments in different functions, specialized roles or leadership positions and the upside can pretty quickly jump up into the $250,000-$750,000 range.
Some of this is unknown to most people within a company, but once you advance to a certain haypoint level it activates things like base bonus percentage increases in the 30-50% level, stock options, deferred stock and other retirement pledges that overnight can take you from a $130,000 salary to $400,000+ which only grows more significant as you progress further.
For me Chemical Engineering was more about options, long term growth potential, quality of life as I moved into my late 40s and beyond and a high ceiling as opposed to the amount I made the first few years of my tenure.
Posted on 7/23/20 at 9:56 am to MonreauxTiger
The OT Lounge where OT, bonuses and company paid medical counts as base salary.
This post was edited on 7/23/20 at 10:02 am
Posted on 7/23/20 at 9:59 am to Ric Flair
A smooth operator is light years’ better than an enginerd:
Posted on 7/23/20 at 10:14 am to Ric Flair
I wouldn't put Dow as one of the top paying plants in the area, because they aren't.
Posted on 7/23/20 at 10:22 am to MonreauxTiger
quote:
Many (most) Engineers start out in the $80-$100K range, work the required hours, do a decent job and get an incremental raise every year at 1.5%-3%. Some are ambitious, successful and accept additional risks by moving around and taking on difficult assignments in different functions, specialized roles or leadership positions and the upside can pretty quickly jump up into the $250,000-$750,000 range.
Wife is a ChE. Started her career as a production engineer at a plant in Geismar making $85k. Two years later she is at $100k and will most likely be promoted in October.
She works her arse off. Has not had a 40hr week in over a year. Averaging 55-60/week over the last 5mos
Her goal is to be an executive level leader but if I had to predict her path, she will be a Subject matter expert in a specialized role. She’s an incredibly talented chemist with a proven record of optimization
This post was edited on 7/23/20 at 10:25 am
Posted on 7/23/20 at 10:23 am to MonreauxTiger
I read every response in this thread and yours is the best, atleast from the operator side.
Posted on 7/23/20 at 11:27 am to indytiger
I've worked around Union and Salaried Operators, Crafts and Engineers for over 20 years and I can say with certainty that the bell curve exists in this argument just as it does with any other debate.
Some of the most intelligent, hard working, and successful people I've ever been around were Operators. In addition, some of the dumbest and laziest people I've ever been around were Operators. I could say the same about Craftsmen, Engineers and people in other Functions. Most of the time it comes down to the individual, what type of person you are and how much pride you have in your work and how determined you are to maximize your potential over the long haul.
I actually think it is a worthless argument when comparing to see which is "better" as they are totally different, encounter a completely different barrier to entry, have differing role specific success criteria and typically complement each other toward the overall success of the function.
Some of the most intelligent, hard working, and successful people I've ever been around were Operators. In addition, some of the dumbest and laziest people I've ever been around were Operators. I could say the same about Craftsmen, Engineers and people in other Functions. Most of the time it comes down to the individual, what type of person you are and how much pride you have in your work and how determined you are to maximize your potential over the long haul.
I actually think it is a worthless argument when comparing to see which is "better" as they are totally different, encounter a completely different barrier to entry, have differing role specific success criteria and typically complement each other toward the overall success of the function.
Posted on 7/23/20 at 11:35 am to NOLAManBlog
quote:
3000 of OT??
No, 900+ hours of OT, so 3000+ total hours on the year.
Posted on 7/23/20 at 11:38 am to fishfighter
I have two children that work for majors (according to the Wikipedia definition posted). One is a chem E and one is a process operator. This is a regular topic in our family
But both are happy with their decisions for different reasons.
But both are happy with their decisions for different reasons.
Posted on 7/23/20 at 11:41 am to GetmorewithLes
quote:
I have Operators that make straight time $43 an hour working 12 hr shift. With OT for just covering vacations and other needs they easily make north of $150K
This is great for a 20/30 something... Once you get past that with kids OT is not nearly as worth it.
Posted on 7/23/20 at 12:11 pm to NYNolaguy1
Man looking back at this thread....I was right on a lot of things and so wrong on some and can see it now that I am inside the fence.
I will say, I was wrong for a long time, imo working for the plant is better than the contractors.
Still laughing at guys saying engineers are making over 200k in a non-supervision roll in the plant, hell even at corporate. Maybe, and I stress maybe, one of the majors but going to be very rare. Plenty make that after bonus but they are in supervision, even senior level individual contributors are not making close to that.
I was off on some of my initial numbers, but not much. If you stay truly in a role of engineer and in that particular discplined, outside of chemical you are going to be limited. But i dunno why any one would just stay in a role like that.
And still laughing that engineers on average are working 60+ hours a week. Most aren't touching 50, much less 60. Some in supervision but even that is rare.
And still two years later.... operations is a great job, but engineering is still better.
I will say, I was wrong for a long time, imo working for the plant is better than the contractors.
Still laughing at guys saying engineers are making over 200k in a non-supervision roll in the plant, hell even at corporate. Maybe, and I stress maybe, one of the majors but going to be very rare. Plenty make that after bonus but they are in supervision, even senior level individual contributors are not making close to that.
I was off on some of my initial numbers, but not much. If you stay truly in a role of engineer and in that particular discplined, outside of chemical you are going to be limited. But i dunno why any one would just stay in a role like that.
And still laughing that engineers on average are working 60+ hours a week. Most aren't touching 50, much less 60. Some in supervision but even that is rare.
And still two years later.... operations is a great job, but engineering is still better.
Posted on 7/23/20 at 12:48 pm to Oilfieldbiology
quote:
This absolute horse shite. Every engineer I know worth a damn is working close to 60 hours per week every week and not getting over time.
A good process engineer should be able to line out their units so that they don’t have to work this much
Except turnarounds obviously
So I’m not sure they are actually worth a damn. Or they have bad management?
Posted on 7/23/20 at 1:00 pm to GetmorewithLes
Operations don't work 60 hours a week straight time. It's 48 and 36. To make 150 you're working quite a bit of ot
Posted on 7/23/20 at 1:01 pm to ProbyOne
Holy shite. I remember this thread from 2 years ago. What a random arse bump
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