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Message

re: New MSY Terminal design: taxi times to increase by 40% for inbound jets, 70% for outbound

Posted on 9/30/19 at 9:54 am to
Posted by 777Tiger
Member since Mar 2011
73856 posts
Posted on 9/30/19 at 9:54 am to
quote:

Hey but at least it has a shake shack


I just want to see the drink carts make a comeback
Posted by SippyCup
Gulf Coast
Member since Sep 2008
6145 posts
Posted on 9/30/19 at 9:54 am to
Being a NS resident, I fly out of GPT whenever possible. So much nicer than MSY.
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
37153 posts
Posted on 9/30/19 at 9:54 am to
quote:

can we put names on the exact people responsible for this?


What "this" are you referring to?

The aviation authority has ultimate control here. A majority of the aviation board are appointed by the mayor of NOLA.
Posted by SM6
Georgia
Member since Jul 2008
8801 posts
Posted on 9/30/19 at 9:55 am to
quote:

Based on these taxi times from the article, the percentages make it sound far worse than it actually is.

Biggest concern for the new airport is going to be the access road far more than taxi times.

That article really reads like a hack job - or an attempt to make Baton Rouge's airport look good in comparison.


I would need to review the EA, but it is possible that those numbers are for a specific configuration, for example, flights departing off of Runway 11, which would certainly be a longer taxi time than today. On the other hand, anything departing from 20 would have a much shorter taxi time.
This post was edited on 9/30/19 at 9:57 am
Posted by waiting4saturday
Covington, LA
Member since Sep 2005
9742 posts
Posted on 9/30/19 at 9:57 am to
This article is a hack job.

“70%” increase in taxi times for aircraft means it goes from 3 minutes to 5 minutes. Taxi times at MSY are some of the shortest out there. The new terminal will be just fine. Should be open next month.

Also crossing an active is something almost every other airport does. LAX, HOU, MDW, ATL... you name it, you’re likely to cross an active here.
This post was edited on 9/30/19 at 10:00 am
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
37153 posts
Posted on 9/30/19 at 9:57 am to
quote:

The also quote Frank Stewart, whoever that is.. cited by the article as "New Orleans businessman and airport critic"


Frank Stewart is a wealthy man who built a funeral business and sold it a number of years ago. He was a stauch defender of the "statues" and has been hypercritical of Landrieu ever since then.

He's only an "airport critic" because it involves Landrieu.

He's just a rich, old man with money to spend on newspaper ads. Pay him no attention.
Posted by The Boat
Member since Oct 2008
164337 posts
Posted on 9/30/19 at 9:58 am to
quote:

Should be open next month.

How many months have we heard that now?
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
126962 posts
Posted on 9/30/19 at 9:59 am to
The next thing to happen is MSY will be like most of the airports in Russia where the plane parks away from the terminal, a group of workers roll a staircase up to the plane, everybody gets off using the stairs and then walk a quarter of a mile to the terminal building.

Posted by m57
Flyover Country
Member since May 2017
2092 posts
Posted on 9/30/19 at 10:00 am to
Landing and departing only on 11 is going to be a nightmare configuration. I see a lot of go arounds in the future.
Posted by SM6
Georgia
Member since Jul 2008
8801 posts
Posted on 9/30/19 at 10:00 am to
quote:

Then, there’s the fact that there’s no exit ramp off the east-west runway connecting to the new terminal. Like the exit ramp off an interstate, a runway exit ramp enables a plane, as it slows, to quickly and efficiently clear the runway without having to come to a near complete stop and make a sharp right turn. Because of the proximity of the new terminal and its B and C concourses to the runway, however, there isn’t enough space to build an exit ramp where it would optimally go. As a practical matter, this means planes will spend more time on the runway when they’re landing from the west, which means they won’t be able to land quite as frequently.




Again, this is written as though we are talking about the world's busiest airport, Chicago O'Hare.

In the unlikely even a plane landing from the west on 11 needs the full length (ie, an A380 or 777, neither of which operate at MSY) then they slow to a stop and turn left onto Taxiway S at the end of the runway. This is not going to slow down a single thing. The in-trail separation for wake turbulence is going to be 3-5 minutes. The plane behind or waiting to depart will still be waiting well after the plane has exited the runway.
Posted by waiting4saturday
Covington, LA
Member since Sep 2005
9742 posts
Posted on 9/30/19 at 10:01 am to
I’ve seen some recent pictures. Everything almost built out (waiting for final concessions to finish) and the fence is down and they’re done for test for gates to make sure they’re painted correctly. I’d be shocked if it wasn’t open by Halloween.
Posted by 777Tiger
Member since Mar 2011
73856 posts
Posted on 9/30/19 at 10:01 am to
quote:

The next thing to happen is MSY will be like most of the airports in Russia where the plane parks away from the terminal, a group of workers roll a staircase up to the plane, everybody gets off using the stairs and then walk a quarter of a mile to the terminal building.


happens in a lot more places than Russia, saw it in Seattle yesterday, and not from a bug smasher airline either
Posted by SM6
Georgia
Member since Jul 2008
8801 posts
Posted on 9/30/19 at 10:02 am to
quote:

Landing and departing only on 11 is going to be a nightmare configuration. I see a lot of go arounds in the future.


Please explain. What about the current configuration, compared to the new taxi flows is going to result in a massive increase in missed approaches?
Posted by m57
Flyover Country
Member since May 2017
2092 posts
Posted on 9/30/19 at 10:04 am to
No high speed exit to the north terminal where taxiway Foxtrot currently is for the old one. Aircraft that need to push back from the southern tips off the new terminal will come close to blocking the exit.

I can see aircraft exiting 11 on the south side to foxtrot and having to double back and re-cross the runway at some point if the following aircraft is close behind. More runway crossings is also a safety issue.
Posted by Chicken
Jackassistan
Member since Aug 2003
22045 posts
Posted on 9/30/19 at 10:05 am to
quote:

What "this" are you referring to?
well, let's see...how about everything in this quote:

quote:

The project, originally scheduled to open in May 2018, is now some 18 months behind schedule and its original price tag of $650 million has ballooned to more than $1.2 billion.

Faulty construction due to cost-saving short cuts—reportedly forewarned by a building permits official in Kenner—resulted in more than 100 cracks to the facility’s underground sewerage pipes, which had to be dug up and repaired.

The interstate flyover ramp off Interstate 10 at Loyola Drive that will connect to the new facility was not planned, funded or put out to bid until after the new terminal had already been approved and was well on its way to being developed. As a result, the key artery will not be completed until at least 2023, according to state transportation secretary Shawn Wilson.

And support services for the airport—hotels, offsite parking lots, the rental car garage, and the existing passenger parking garage, which will be utilized and marketed as a cheaper, economy garage—are on the south side of the airfield’s main east-west runway and, therefore, cannot be directly accessed from the new terminal.
Posted by 777Tiger
Member since Mar 2011
73856 posts
Posted on 9/30/19 at 10:06 am to
quote:

In the unlikely even a plane landing from the west on 11 needs the full length (ie, an A380 or 777, neither of which operate at MSY) then they slow to a stop and turn left onto Taxiway S at the end of the runway. This is not going to slow down a single thing. The in-trail separation for wake turbulence is going to be 3-5 minutes. The plane behind or waiting to depart will still be waiting well after the plane has exited the runway.


looking at that diagram, and I don't fly into MSY for work anymore but have been flying in and out of there for decades in big jets, the new layout will have zero impact on taxi times, might actually reduce them, the new terminal is actually closer to the departure ends of 11 and 20, which are the prevailing runways in use, bunch of bitching about nothing on this place
Posted by m57
Flyover Country
Member since May 2017
2092 posts
Posted on 9/30/19 at 10:08 am to
quote:


In the unlikely even a plane landing from the west on 11 needs the full length (ie, an A380 or 777, neither of which operate at MSY) then they slow to a stop and turn left onto Taxiway S at the end of the runway. This is not going to slow down a single thing. The in-trail separation for wake turbulence is going to be 3-5 minutes. The plane behind or waiting to depart will still be waiting well after the plane has exited the runway.


Wake turb sep isn't 5 minutes, that would be incredibly inefficient. Its not uncommon, especially when running visual approaches to have 3 miles or less between a/c on final. Normally now planes exit at Foxtrot to the south terminal but if there are aircraft pushing back off the new terminal close to 11, those arrivals need to quickly vacate south to Foxtrot. Going down to S isn't an ideal option as those planes have to slow as well to turn off. Runway needs to be clear before following a/c crosses the runway threshold.
Posted by waiting4saturday
Covington, LA
Member since Sep 2005
9742 posts
Posted on 9/30/19 at 10:08 am to
quote:

No high speed exit to the north terminal where taxiway Foxtrot currently is for the old one.


FAA doesn’t allow high speeds directly to the ramp anymore. The current one is grandfathered in, but that’s why they didn’t build one to the north.
Posted by lsu13lsu
Member since Jan 2008
11487 posts
Posted on 9/30/19 at 10:11 am to
quote:

Sure... this airport construction and planning could have been much, much better.


There is no defending this. But, I appreciate you trying.
Posted by Scruffy
Kansas City
Member since Jul 2011
72170 posts
Posted on 9/30/19 at 10:11 am to
Chicken, you will see nothing but Louisianians, mainly New Orleanians, defending this.

This entire process from start to finish has been an absolute travesty.

- Doubled cost
- Already faulty construction that has to be replaced
- Complete lack of planning that pushes the opening date back years
- Poor planning which makes the airport slower and access harder

This is a perfect embodiment of everything wrong with LA.

People will defend it to the end as well.
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