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Message
re: Madison Brooks Case - A Discussion Regarding Alcohol and Consent
Posted on 1/30/23 at 12:28 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Posted on 1/30/23 at 12:28 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Not sure where your angst comes from in this thread, all I said was they admitted she was wasted.
The angst comes from me generally agreeing with you and enjoying discussions with you, but in this thread you seem to be missing the point of the OP and the subsequent discussion. It’s not about Maddison, but a hypothetical where both parties were equally drunk, but not blackout
1
Posted on 1/30/23 at 12:30 pm to Oilfieldbiology
quote:
but in this thread you seem to be missing the point of the OP
How the frick is saying they admitted to her being wasted outside the scope of this thread?
You never ever have sex with a stranger if she's wasted. Even if you are wasted. They'll still charge the dude.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 12:31 pm to ScorpioMan006
quote:
As an Alumni been following the sad thing about the Madison Brooks case. As someone who has a boy going to college next year (not LSU and sadly with the state of Baton Rouge glad it's not LSU) I've already had the consent discussion with him. Honestly I'm tried to tell him I would rather him go the escort route than try to hook up with most college girls. I've told him to assume no consent unless the girl says it and to reaffirm every few minutes that he has consent.
But here's my point. It seems as though the Madison Brooks Case is going to rely on consent. Obviously what those men did were despicable and I hope they sit behind bars for the rest of their life. With that said, it seems as though this case has brought up an interesting discussion regarding consent.
The defense will try to claim consent while of course the family and the prosecution will emphasize that as Madison Brooks was well above the legal limit she could not legally consent to sex.
Here's something I thought about it with this case. What if both parties are drunk? Legally then neither side could by the law legally consent to sex. As I was thinking about this in regards to my son it means by the law a whole heck of a lot of us (probably all of us at some point in college) could legally be accused of rape.
So from both the general perspective as well as from the legal perspective (for those in the legal profession on this board), what happens if both are drunk and neither can legally consent to rape? Did both parties essentially rape each other?
I find this curious as with the Me Too movement and other movements in recent years the focus is only on women not being able to legally consent when drunk. But what about if both the man and woman are drunk? Could the man essentially countersue and claim the woman drunk her as well?
With the standard now being that someone can legally claim rape due to not being able to legally consent due to being drunk I see it opening up a whole can of worms going forward.
I agree. As a headstrong, capable woman. I have a problem with the narrative that women are so weak that if drunk they can't consent but a drunk 18 year old boy is capable of determining what consent is? I am raising my daughters that moderation is key. You don't get fall down drunk in public. I learned this the hard way and I want them to have an understanding that if you are so drunk you are not responsible for your actions or words then you are too drunk. Go home and get safe.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 12:32 pm to USMEagles
quote:
What happened to Brooks was clearly rape.
Only because the circumstance that she died after getting hit by a car.
If the circumstances were different, she made it home after getting extremely intoxicated at a bar, left with 4 guys, and had sex with 2 of them. The next morning, she claimed that she was raped. Will the case be as clear?
Posted on 1/30/23 at 12:33 pm to bushwacker
quote:
i got wasted and went home with a fat girl once. i would have never done this sober. does this mean she raped me?
most of the time that is due to the booze letting your pecker do the thinking.
There are a few girls that I knew back in the day that you did not want to be drunk around, it wasn't rape but it was always regretful. They definitely had a thing for shitfaced guys.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 12:34 pm to Lokistale
quote:
Only because the circumstance that she died after getting hit by a car. If the circumstances were different, she made it home after getting extremely intoxicated at a bar, left with 4 guys, and had sex with 2 of them. The next morning, she claimed that she was raped. Will the case be as clear?
Yes. She couldn’t stand up nor even articulate where she lived. That’s rape.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 12:36 pm to ScorpioMan006
quote:
I agree it's cringeworthy but what's the problem of asking if she's still wanting the sex?
Every few minutes? Well, he would only have to ask a few times. Lol.
What you're guaranteeing is he will never have sex w the same woman more than once. And she'll tell everyone about him asking her over and over if he still has her consent.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 12:38 pm to Lokistale
quote:
If the circumstances were different, she made it home after getting extremely intoxicated at a bar, left with 4 guys, and had sex with 2 of them. The next morning, she claimed that she was raped. Will the case be as clear?
of course not because we wouldn't have her BAC.
there is a good chance she never mentions it to anyone and there is a chance she gets in the uber to take her right to the hospital/police.
This post was edited on 1/30/23 at 12:39 pm
Posted on 1/30/23 at 12:38 pm to Lokistale
quote:
What happened to Brooks was clearly rape.
Only because the circumstance that she died after getting hit by a car.
Wrong, rape is rape.
What wouldn't be clear is the evidence. The rape still occurred.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 12:39 pm to ScorpioMan006
Of course, if a chick is absolutely wasted, you shouldn’t have sex with her, plain and simple. There’s a line that should never be crossed.
That being said, I think “consent” has gotten too relaxed and is being abused.
What I don’t get is they say even if she DOES consent, she was really too drunk to mean it. Well what if the guy is as drunk as her? If she can’t comprehend consent, then how can he comprehend non-consent?
That being said, I think “consent” has gotten too relaxed and is being abused.
What I don’t get is they say even if she DOES consent, she was really too drunk to mean it. Well what if the guy is as drunk as her? If she can’t comprehend consent, then how can he comprehend non-consent?
Posted on 1/30/23 at 12:39 pm to deltaland
quote:
Yea .32 is beyond drunk.
It seems that way, but what if she is a raging alcoholic? And I don't mean Brooks specifically, but anybody.
I don't drink, so .32 likely has me hospitalized or dead. But someone else may be functional at that level. And if the videos that exist are supposedly true, and show her talking and consenting and even making fun of one of the dudes and calling him gay for not wanting to have sex with her, that changes things IMO. Just because we hear ".319" and freak out about it doesn't mean that she wasn't capable of making adult decisions.
It'll be interesting to see how it plays out being such a touchy situation all around.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 12:45 pm to USMEagles
quote:
I'm not saying I didn't care about consent. I'm saying I don't remember there ever being much of a gray area around it. We have pages and pages of "what if" here now, around both parties being drunk, very specific BAC levels of drunkenness, etc. and I just don't get it. What happened to Brooks was clearly rape. Two somewhat drunk, probably ugly people hooking up at closing time is not.
I hear you. Was just messing with you a little based on the wording
Posted on 1/30/23 at 12:46 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
What wouldn't be clear is the evidence. The rape still occurred.
Good point, I should have said evidence for a rape conviction is not clear based on the circumstance, not the deed itself.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 12:48 pm to deltaland
quote:quote:
quote:don't think you can "legally" consent to rape, drunk or otherwise.
I guess you could consent to playing out a rape fantasy or something
But what if both were at .319 BAC at the time?
Is Fantasy rape enhanced by as put by SFP technically raping each other during their rape fantasy due neither having ability to give legal consent?
Do they even remember it? Or maybe film it to then relive it?
Seems like too much work and too much of a hang over. If I can’t get the usual followed up with a gluten-free sandwich using the fantasy of it will suffice before going to sleep (gluten-free is key for both reality and fantasy though as it shows an extra appreciation for my effort).
Posted on 1/30/23 at 1:03 pm to Lokistale
quote:
If the circumstances were different, she made it home after getting extremely intoxicated at a bar, left with 4 guys, and had sex with 2 of them. The next morning, she claimed that she was raped. Will the case be as clear?
Yeah, it'd still be rape, though knowing how people think it would be vastly more difficult to get a conviction.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 1:07 pm to ScorpioMan006
quote:
reaffirm every few minutes that he has consent.
Sign this consent form please and start the timer
Posted on 1/30/23 at 1:12 pm to blue_morrison
quote:
Sign this consent form please and start the timer
A decade or so ago, some liberal arts colleges were providing consent forms for girls on campus.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 1:14 pm to Snipe
quote:
At .318 BAC there is no discussion.
Only probably a 300 page thread worth
Posted on 1/30/23 at 1:30 pm to tigergirl10
quote:
You would rather your child pay for sex with someone who’s had tons of penises in every orifice of her body? Have you heard of herpes and HIV?
You may be a woman after all. That’s a very negative viewpoint of the worlds oldest profession.
Posted on 1/30/23 at 1:42 pm to Cosmo
quote:
At .318 BAC there is no discussion.
quote:
Have had patients with that BAC that seem barely drunk
Just depends on how much of a pro partier you are
Sadly, if Madison wasn't a "pro", perhaps she would have passed out before she ever left the bar and never had the energy or awareness to chase the boys down.
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