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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 4/5/22 at 9:00 am to DabosDynasty
Posted on 4/5/22 at 9:00 am to DabosDynasty
Yes Dabos, she is the one reporting on all that for the NYTimes.
Journalists get PTSD too.
Journalists get PTSD too.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 9:14 am to Perfect Circle
quote:
the global political/economic elite's propaganda
quote:
Perfect Circle
Oh boy. You guys cant help yourselves, its like a mental illness.
This thread is about Ukrainians killing Russians and Russians killing Ukrainians and how they are doing it. Its actually pretty simple.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 9:14 am to Perfect Circle
Clinton continues in damage-control mode. “I know this is a political problem for you at home,” he says, later in the conversation, “and I will do anything I can to put it right and restart the diplomacy at any point in this. I’d give anything not to have to make this telephone call today, but we have no choice.”
Yeltsin just gets sadder. “Our people will certainly from now have a bad attitude with regard to America and with nato,” he says. “I remember how difficult it was for me to try and turn the heads of our people, the heads of the politicians towards the West, towards the United States, but I succeeded in doing that, and now to lose all that. Well, since I failed to convince the President, that means there in store for us a very difficult, difficult road of contacts, if they prove to be possible. Goodbye.”
A...aand that was the birth of Putinism.
Serbia is Russia’s traditional ally, and American military intervention will show that Moscow is helpless either to protect or influence it.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 9:29 am to TBoy
quote:
If the EU had given them certain checkpoints to hit to ensure democracy and a path to EU and eventually nato membership we would have been much better off as a whole. The Russians don’t play well with others.
The EU has reached out to Russia several times over the past 25 years or so. Russia refused because it would mean abandoning the economic union it was trying to build between FSU states. Plus it would have had to reform its corrupt economy and legal system. Yeltsin and Putin had no interest in doing that.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 9:34 am to WeeWee
They consider themselves a great country and in some senses they are, but they lack a modern economy and would end up being a junior partner dictated to by Western countries that are more dynamic and diversified. They'd rather hold on to the dream of empire.
This post was edited on 4/5/22 at 9:35 am
Posted on 4/5/22 at 9:39 am to QboveTopSecret
Exactly. Inept American foreign policy put on display who the war mongers were, and brought about the rise of Putin.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 9:45 am to WeeWee
quote:
The EU has reached out to Russia several times over the past 25 years or so.
Mikhail Borisovich Khodorkovsky was head of Yukos in 2005 and maybe the richest of the Russian Oligarchs. In a meeting of the Oligarchs and Putin in 2005 he suggested doing as the EU was asking and reduce corruption in Russia and transitioning to a more European model. Shortly after that he was arrested and his company was distributed to the other Oligarchs. He spent 8 years in prison before being allowed to leave for Switzerland. That was when Russia dropped any pretense of being anything other than a Kleptocracy run by a crime syndicate.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 9:48 am to Tigris
Ukraine was trying to take the EU path in a similar situation. We see where that got them with Moscow.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 9:57 am to TigerDoc
quote:
Ukraine was trying to take the EU path in a similar situation. We see where that got them with Moscow.
The Russian empire died for economic reasons and national reasons, but the Bear is still around.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 10:02 am to WeeWee
quote:
The Czech Republic and Slovakia have started giving Ukraine tanks and more importantly opening their military industrial facilities to Ukraine so the Ukrainians can repair their own tanks and stuff. LINK
Thats big. I suspect they need mechanics as well.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 10:07 am to Lakeboy7
quote:
Thats big. I suspect they need mechanics as well.
I would imagine that the Ukrainians would allow the employees from its destroyed plants to the CR and Slovakia. The EU is basically giving out work visas to Ukrainians right now.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 10:11 am to WeeWee
I’m sure this has been discussed in this thread… but does anyone here think it’s possible that the most recent footage of civilians killed execution style could really have been staged like Russia claims?
That part of the world is known for staging things and conducting false flags.
Does anyone find it a little odd that all of the bodies were face down with no visible injuries?
I’m not saying it was staged, but I gotta be honest… I don’t trust a single bit of information coming out on either side. It’s information warfare right now. Everyone has an agenda. Everyone is pumping out their propaganda. Ukraine definitely has the motivation to do whatever it takes to horrify the world to entice countries like the U.S. to get involved on their side. I trust nothing right now.
That part of the world is known for staging things and conducting false flags.
Does anyone find it a little odd that all of the bodies were face down with no visible injuries?
I’m not saying it was staged, but I gotta be honest… I don’t trust a single bit of information coming out on either side. It’s information warfare right now. Everyone has an agenda. Everyone is pumping out their propaganda. Ukraine definitely has the motivation to do whatever it takes to horrify the world to entice countries like the U.S. to get involved on their side. I trust nothing right now.
This post was edited on 4/5/22 at 10:13 am
Posted on 4/5/22 at 10:16 am to PrimeTime Money
I think they could exaggerate, but I don’t think they could completely fabricate. There are too many people watching to carry the lie too far.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 10:20 am to PrimeTime Money
Verify yes, but keep in mind that the typical Russian response to atrocities is with the "firehose of disinformation", numerous narratives that may even contradict each other, but all attempt to deflect from Russian culpability. See Litvinenko, the Skripals, Crimea/Donbas '14, MH17, etc.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 10:35 am to PrimeTime Money
quote:
I’m not saying it was staged, but I gotta be honest… I don’t trust a single bit of information coming out on either side. It’s information warfare right now. Everyone has an agenda. Everyone is pumping out their propaganda. Ukraine definitely has the motivation to do whatever it takes to horrify the world to entice countries like the U.S. to get involved on their side. I trust nothing right now.
Ukraine is already receiving enough support and is on a winning streak against the Russians. There is no need for them to further escalate support or risk their maskirovka being exposed.
The Russians have a proven history of atrocities against determined enemies. This is straight out of their playbook used in Afghanistan, Chechnya, Georgia, and now Ukraine.
Let's also not forget their response to a terrorist hostage event by using poison gas on EVERYONE in the theatre. Wiki
This post was edited on 4/5/22 at 10:36 am
Posted on 4/5/22 at 10:39 am to Tigeralum2008
quote:
This is straight out of their playbook used in Afghanistan, Chechnya, Georgia, and now Ukraine.
I would add Germany and Syria to your list.
The problem for them is the whole world is watching now and everybody has a camera on their phone.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 10:45 am to PrimeTime Money
quote:
Does anyone find it a little odd that all of the bodies were face down with no visible injuries?
There are definitely dudes with missing eyes, burned bodies, desiccation, mass graves, etc. Sure, they could’ve just brought some of those in for props, but either way, it’s a myth to say they are all neat and tidy.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 10:51 am to Tigeralum2008
quote:
Let's also not forget their response to a terrorist hostage event by using poison gas on EVERYONE in the theatre.
Or the fact that Putin was probably involved in a series of apartment buildings explosions in Russia that killed hundreds in 1999. It was blamed on the Chechens but it helped cement him in office, and Russian security effectively blocked any serious investigation. Two key members of an independent commission looking into the bombings were assassinated and another was jailed. "Former FSB agent Alexander Litvinenko, who defected and blamed the FSB for the bombings, was poisoned and killed in London in 2006." (Wiki).
Posted on 4/5/22 at 10:54 am to Lakeboy7
quote:
The problem for them is the whole world is watching now and everybody has a camera on their phone.
We keep expecting Russia to live by western standards because they are near Europe and look like Europeans. When in fact Russia is decidedly much more brutal and closer to China in values than their Euro neighbors.
Russia likes to threaten the West with brinksmanship politics. It's time to call their bluff and watch them back down
Posted on 4/5/22 at 10:56 am to Tigeralum2008
quote:
It is the second month of war in Eastern Europe. Scenes of horror are unfolding as the Russian forces withdraw from Kyiv. In the suburbs of Bucha, Irpin and Hostomel, convoys move in to deliver humanitarian aide only to find these cities empty and the dead scattered in the streets. There seems to be evidence that some civilians were bound up and shot in the back of their heads by the Russians. There are half buried bodies in mass graves. The Russians have also left some of their dead behind. In response, several Russian dozen diplomats were expelled from EU countries and renewed calls for an international war crimes inquiry grew shrill. What is most disturbing is that we can expect similar scenes out of the occupied suburbs of Kharkiv and in the Siege of Mariupol. Indiscriminate attacks with artillery and unguided munitions is one thing, but the systemic targeting of civilians for torture and execution is something else entirely.
This is already impacting negotiations which, prior to these revelations of potential war crimes, were already on shaky ground. The Russians were humiliated by a daring helicopter airstrike over Belgorod, Russia which the Ukrainians deny. They used this as an excuse to backpedal on negotiations, never mind that Russian aircraft are bombing Ukrainian cities every day. As the world reacts with revulsion at what may have transpired around Kyiv, Ukraine can expect a renewed emphasis on arms deliveries. The Ukrainians will work out their own revenge, a thought that sends shivers down the spine.
The Russians, meanwhile, have simply quit Kyiv. They even turned Chernobyl back over to the Ukrainians after they bussed dozens of Russian soldiers to Belarussian hospitals with acute radiation syndrome. They were apparently digging trenches in the highly radioactive soil around the ghost forests of Chernobyl. Russian forces around Kyiv have withdrawn into Russia to reconstitute and rearm. They will be redeployed to the Donbas front where the focus of fighting is now being concentrated. There we may see more ‘classical’ warfare with large maneuvering formations and sustained offensives meant to grind down the Ukrainian Army. As for any negative press, the Russians have just issued blanket statements that all such coverage, including the massacres around Kyiv, are staged or fake. I’m not sure who they are convincing except their own people. Even the Chinese have to feel embarrassed in their association with such a rogue, out-of-control nuclear power.
A few things to watch out for is the US’s case to eject Russia from the Human Rights Council of the UN, and continuing world reaction to what has transpired around Kyiv. The war in the Donbas will begin to intensify as Russian forces concentrate there for a supreme effort to try and win this sickening war.
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