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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 2/12/24 at 9:16 am to Coeur du Tigre
Posted on 2/12/24 at 9:16 am to Coeur du Tigre
quote:
We'll hear Ronald Reagan's name invoked constantly.
I think of him whenever I see an echo chamber “Republican” braying some bs on this situation. We are in strange times.
0
Posted on 2/12/24 at 9:49 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
We're not there.
Bless your heart....
Posted on 2/12/24 at 9:53 am to doubleb
quote:
If you believe we should provide more aid to African nations fine, but this thread is about the Ukraine War.
Now now, no deflection. Its..
A) because Russia is about to start WW3 and all of Europe is giving them 17 billion for a 4 trillion budget
B) is humanitarian which means we should be sending weapons in the billions to every country in conflict
So which is it. And that is the problem, you guys cant answer it, just rhetoric, personal attacks.
Its ignorant to send that place money so the kickbacks can be sprayed around the infield while people die on both sides.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 10:06 am to trinidadtiger
quote:
A) because Russia is about to start WW3 and all of Europe is giving them 17 billion for a 4 trillion budget
I agree with you, Putin had been aggressively starting problems in Europe and European nations should do even more than they have to stop their expansion,
quote:
B) is humanitarian which means we should be sending weapons in the billions to every country in conflict
We already send billions in humanitarian all over the world. Unfortunately too often the aid gets diverted and the folks don’t receive what we send.
But Ukraine isn’t just any country. We promised to protect their sovereignty if attacked. We need to keep our word.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 10:47 am to cypher
quote:
By Timothy Snyder
Snyder is the SME on the modern history of that part of the world.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 10:56 am to doubleb
quote:
We need to keep our word.
Like when we installed the government in Ukraine and continued to push nato to Putin’s doorstep after we said we wouldn’t. You know the thing that created this whole mess and that we continue to fund to the tune of billions in taxpayer funds?
We can’t stop now because we’d be breaking our word?
Posted on 2/12/24 at 11:12 am to ezride25
quote:
Like when we installed the government in Ukraine and continued to push nato to Putin’s doorstep after we said we wouldn’t. You know the thing that created this whole mess and that we continue to fund to the tune of billions in taxpayer funds?
We never agreed to not expanding NATO. Discussed yes, agreed no.
And we didn’t install the current government in Ukraine. The Ukrainians did that themselves after their president cozied up to the Russians. Did we help them? Probably, but that’s part of the game. The game played for decades.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 12:02 pm to ezride25
quote:
continued to push nato to Putin’s doorstep after we said we wouldn’t.
You politards who drive by this thread are some low information MF'rs. We never signed any formal agreement with either the USSR or Russia stating that NATO wouldn't expand.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 12:34 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
By the way, in the bill's current form, 75% of the appropriated money goes to Americans, and a full 60% of it goes to American weapons manufacturers to make new weapons for the US military to replace older equipment that we would be sending to Ukraine/Israel/Taiwan.
This is what I want: let Europe cover expenses (i.e. direct disbursements) and just give them weapons.
Some of the political pushback is this whole "money-laundering" stuff. Whatever. All "aid" should be, "We sent x provisions, with the estimated cost of $x."
Posted on 2/12/24 at 12:36 pm to Chromdome35
quote:
We never signed any formal agreement with either the USSR or Russia stating that NATO wouldn't expand.
No. We gave them our WORD.
You just proved my point by trying to dunk on me. Do try to keep up with your high information intellect.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 12:43 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
In his conversation with Carlson, Putin focused on the 9th, 10th, and 11th centuries. Moscow did not exist then. So even if we could perform the wishful time travel that Putin wants, and turn the clock back to 988, it could not lead us to a country with a capital in Moscow. Most of Russia’s present territory is in Siberia. Europeans did not control those Asian territories back then. On Putin’s logic, Russia has no claim today to the territories from which it extracts its natural gas and oil. Other countries would, and Russia’s national minorities would.
Putin’s point was that Slavs in Ukraine and Russia are largely one people, putting side the population that lives in what was once (and in fairness should be) Poland. This population has, not suprisingly, a different identity. But they do not speak for the whole country, and are very unlikely to speak for the 30% of Ukrainians who have family in Russia.
quote:
When a nation is called “artificial,” this is justification for genocide. Genocidal language does not refer to the past; it changes the future.
This is sloppy, it’s unclear specifically what he means. Is he suggesting that Russia is going to engage in a campaign of mass murder? That seems very unlikely, they’ve been very careful to avoid civilian casualties.
The Israelis have killed three times as many civilians as the Russians have in just five months of fighting.
Does Snyder consider that genocide?
Or is he arguing that Russia is going to erase the idea of Ukraine? That’s actually not genocide, by definition. It requires a physical act of extermination. And it’s very unlikely that Russia would want to annex the western region of Ukraine, because of the identity issue, and the presence of other peoples. So while Ukraine may be quite a bit smaller when this ends, Ukraine will not disappear.
quote:
On Putin’s logic, it does not matter what people believe or how people understand their own past.
Does Kiev actually speak for the country? How popular is Ukraine? For every six summons, Kiev gets just one man. In the prewar period, before it was banned, the Party of Regions took half the vote, winning the east and the south of the country. Even the national language is not broadly spoken.
quote:
His view must govern the past, which requires violence in the present: genocide.
Snyder is simply using the word as a useful emotional cudgel. This is bad pop academia.
This post was edited on 2/12/24 at 12:55 pm
Posted on 2/12/24 at 12:48 pm to ezride25
quote:
No. We gave them our WORD.
We gave Ukraine our word that we would support them as long as it takes to push Russia out.
Glad you support increased military aid to Ukraine.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 12:59 pm to GOP_Tiger
Gop, what are your feelings on the number of able body fighters for Ukraine? I've seen some pretty sketchy videos of conscription going wrong. Even with 60 bil of new weapons, will they be able to utilize them?
Posted on 2/12/24 at 1:08 pm to GOP_Tiger
Looks like the new Ukrainian commander is going to pull another Bakhmut which is what he’s famous for. Ukraine sent in what may be one of, if not the best, single infantry unit in it’s army, the 3rd Assault Brigade. I’ve advocated of just pulling out and falling back to the best defensive line it can find instead of take 2:1 and 1:1 casualty rates with a country that has millions of sheep they can send to the slaughter? Yes it is more significant logistically than Bakhmut but it’s still a former city that should be take off the map honestly, just like Mariopol and Bakhmut. Not smart getting into a big shooting confrontation when you’re low on just about everything from bombs to bullets right now. It will come it will just take some time. They have to have on or Europe has to step up and put their money where their mouth is.
Also that Antonov 124 landed in the U.S. to offload the 2 HIMARS it held. Headed for Camden, Arkansas for repairs. One took a hit to a mine on the passenger front and the other looks like it most likely took artillery shrapnel.
LINK
Also that Antonov 124 landed in the U.S. to offload the 2 HIMARS it held. Headed for Camden, Arkansas for repairs. One took a hit to a mine on the passenger front and the other looks like it most likely took artillery shrapnel.
LINK
This post was edited on 2/12/24 at 1:12 pm
Posted on 2/12/24 at 1:08 pm to ezride25
quote:
No. We gave them our WORD.
Nope
Posted on 2/12/24 at 1:10 pm to ticklechain
Dodging the draft is nothing new. Even President Trump falsely claimed to have bone spurs to avoid being sent to Vietnam. I don't think that a few random videos tell us much.
Ukraine currently only conscripts those 27 and older, and there are lots of exceptions. They can certainly draft a lot more people, but Zaluzhny's demand for 500,000 more was certainly considered too difficult an ask by Zelensky.
Ukraine currently only conscripts those 27 and older, and there are lots of exceptions. They can certainly draft a lot more people, but Zaluzhny's demand for 500,000 more was certainly considered too difficult an ask by Zelensky.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 1:25 pm to GOP_Tiger
Posted on 2/12/24 at 1:28 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
We gave Ukraine our word that we would support them as long as it takes to push Russia out.
Glad you support increased military aid to Ukraine.
We signed a formal agreement guaranteeing security assistance to Ukraine, I guess in your mind, It's only the agreements that align with you politards world views that we should keep.
This post was edited on 2/12/24 at 1:37 pm
Posted on 2/12/24 at 1:29 pm to ezride25
quote:
No. We gave them our WORD.
But, we didn't re: NATO expansion.
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