re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

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i dont disagree with latin america. we are not doing enough there but we are absolutely doing a good job in the pacific in locking them into the 1st island chain

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Shifting the outsourced labor/production to Latin American has multiple benefits:

1. Reduces our reliance on China
2. Improved influence in Latin America with better economic conditions provided by American companies
3. Better economic conditions in Latin America reduces the desperate need for immigrantion from Latin America to the USA.

British Defence Intelligence
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE
UPDATE ON UKRAINE 05 December 2023

Over recent weeks Russian forces have made creeping advances through the ruins of Marinka, a town in Donetsk Oblast. Russia now likely controls most of the built-up area. However, Ukrainian forces remain in control of pockets of territory on the western edge of the town.

Marinka has been on the front line since 2014. With a pre-war population of 9000, it is comprehensively ruined- drone footage suggests that the vast majority of buildings have been reduced to rubble.

Russia's renewed efforts against Marinka are part of Russia's autumn offensive which is prioritising extending Russia's control over the remaining parts of the Donetsk Oblast - highly likely still one of the Kremlin's core war aims.

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You can’t honestly believe that if there was no NATO Russia would be a peaceful nation. Do you believe they would be living in peace along side Poland, Ukraine and Georgia?

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Russia would and will do what is good for Russia. That is to be expected of all nations.

When we won the Cold War, we had a chance under Yeltsin to incorporate Russia into the western economy just as we did with Japan after WWII. Instead, we gave Russia all of Ukraine's nukes, then isolated them with NATO expansion and delayed inclusion in the World Trade Organization. The paradigm for Russia was reset back to that of the west vs the USSR, meaning what was good for Russia was to oppose the west.

Meanwhile, we granted China WTO membership >10yrs earlier. Do you get that? Do you understand why such actions might be diplomatically counterproductive?

I understand the hate for Putin here. It is justified in some ways. But ANY leader of Russia would bristle at an an enemy alliance, which NATO is, expanding closer and closer to its borders. If you do not see that as a threat to Russian national security, I don't know WTF to tell you.

The singular blaming of Putin in this western proxy war is intellectually simpleton.

There is a reason Ukraine was not invaded during the Trump Administration. It has nothing to do with Trump being a "tough guy." It is simply because Trump saw no reason to provoke Russia.

Biden came in and immediately started re-exploring NATO to Ukraine. Voila! Russia, the entire body politick, not just Putin, elected to try to put an end to the threat militarily.

They failed BTW. To accomplish their goal, they had to temporarily occupy Kyiv and install a government. War is unpredictable. They gambled and they lost.

Now we have a quagmire. Russia under Putin have "reset" their goals to simply incorporate the eastern oblasts, and that is an unfortunate fait accompli. At this point there needs to be a negotiated settlement so the killing stops. That should have occurred 1 1/2 yrs ago when both Ukraine and Russia were willing to sit at the negotiating table, but the US and UK scuttled the effort.

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it will be hard for them to not come to the negotiating table by spring time

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Ukraine was fighting russia in the Donbas since 2014 without much western aide. Russia's peace offer will be all of conquered territory, no EU or NATO membership, and removal of Zelenskys government (IE, Installation of a Belarussa type government favorable to russia)


not EU/NATo and removal of government are non starters for Ukraine, and not having that is a non-starter for Russia (at this point)

Ukraine will continue to fight it out with or without Western aide.

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At this point there needs to be a negotiated settlement so the killing stops. That should have occurred 1 1/2 yrs ago when both Ukraine and Russia were willing to sit at the negotiating table, but the US and UK scuttled the effort.

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And the absolute filth in this thread have opposed that steadfastly. It's despicable. Most have never visited Russia or Ukraine as I have, and are using this ordeal as some sort of ghoulish LARP fantasy.

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Russia's peace offer will be all of conquered territory, no EU or NATO membership, and removal of Zelenskys government (IE, Installation of a Belarussa type government favorable to russia)

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and the counter will be self governance of the occupied oblasts and retention of the Zelenskyy government. I doubt they will get unfettered self governance, but the negotiations will fall somewhere in that range.

Unfortunately, Ukraine will get less than they would have in April 2022.

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Now we have a quagmire. Russia under Putin have "reset" their goals to simply incorporate the eastern oblasts, and that is an unfortunate fait accompli. At this point there needs to be a negotiated settlement so the killing stops. That should have occurred 1 1/2 yrs ago when both Ukraine and Russia were willing to sit at the negotiating table, but the US and UK scuttled the effort.

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Are you referring the peace talks that Putin tanked?

In April 2022 because, per Putin, Ukraine staged Bucha and wanted security guarantees.

In Feb 2022 where, supposedly, Ukraine agreed to not join NATO, but Russia advanced anyway

ETA:

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hen isolated them with NATO expansion and delayed inclusion in the World Trade Organization.

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Russia was told they needed to apply to join and they didn't do it. Wouldn't really put that on NATO

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But at one point in history, Putin’s Russia wanted to join NATO.

“Russia is part of European culture. And I cannot imagine my own country in isolation from Europe and what we often call the civilised world. So it is hard for me to visualise NATO as an enemy,” said Putin, the country’s acting president in 2000, three weeks before the election, which made him president.

At the time, Putin’s words were interpreted as extending an olive branch to the West. Since then, Putin has been in power, rising to the occasion and becoming the sole decision-maker of the country.

The same year, according to the then-NATO chief George Robertson, Putin bluntly asked: “When are you going to invite us to join Nato?” Robertson advised the Russian president that he needs to “apply to join NATO” and not expect an invitation.

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LINK

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Unfortunately, Ukraine will get less than they would have in April 2022.

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In April of 22 Russia occupied Luhansk, Donetsk, much of Kharkiv, much of Mariupol, and were pushing into Ukraine from the North, East and the South

Russia wasn’t about to give Ukraine honorable terms. They were going in for the kill on broad fronts.

UNITED24media
@United24media

Russian Su-24M bomber shot down over Snake Island, — Ukrainian Air Force.

Putin compares himself to Peter the Great in fight to expand Russia (in video)

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LONDON — President Vladimir Putin has compared himself to Peter the Great, saying he shares the 18th-century czar's goal of returning "Russian lands" to a greater empire.

Speaking after visiting an exhibition to celebrate the 350th anniversary of Peter's birth on Thursday, Putin drew a parallel to his invasion of Ukraine.

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"Peter the Great waged the Great Northern War for 21 years. It would seem that he was at war with Sweden, he took something from them," he said, according to a translation from Reuters. "He did not take anything from them, he returned [them]."

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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/putin-ukraine-russia-tsar-peter-great-imperialism-rcna32909