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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 12/4/23 at 7:27 pm to Scuttle But
Posted on 12/4/23 at 7:27 pm to Scuttle But
russia right now is really helping us in that regard 
1
Posted on 12/4/23 at 7:29 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:making Europe realize that they should build some armies? Great, we can stop subsidizing their defense. I wish them the best and am rooting for them.
russia right now is really helping us in that regard
Posted on 12/4/23 at 7:30 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
id say if you are an eastern european country, NATO seems pretty fricking useful right now
NATO looks great right now to Ukraine. It looked great to Finland and Sweden all of a sudden. They all want in.
And we all know it’s not because of a lack of diplomacy, or that NATO has an ultra secret agenda to conquer Europe. It is because Russia has threatened the security of all of Europe since the end of WWII. Russia is why there is NATO. It’s really not hard to understand.
Posted on 12/4/23 at 7:32 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:Right. He has his share. Now address the other two.
no putin, no war
Posted on 12/4/23 at 7:33 pm to Scuttle But
quote:seems like this is something we all collectively want. so yes. thank you russia for making NATO stronger
Great, we can stop subsidizing their defense
Posted on 12/4/23 at 7:33 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:like 100%
He has his share
Posted on 12/4/23 at 7:35 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
short, no NATO, no war. No US interference, no war. Those elements leave "responsibility for war" as shared ... at the least. Do they not?
So we are back onto It's all NATOs fault again?
I do love the circular "it's not Russias fault" logic
Next it will be Biolabs, then back to the Donbas is actually Russia, then back to NATO expansion (which is why Finland and Sweden are fighting Russia on their territory right now as we speak
)Posted on 12/4/23 at 7:37 pm to StormyMcMan
and the whole "we dont need NATO anymore!!!!!" takes being back right when there is literally a ground war in europe initiated by russia is the cherry on top
Posted on 12/4/23 at 7:39 pm to StormyMcMan
quote:
we are back onto It's all NATOs fault again?
It's not NATO's fault. This war is all on Putin and his ridiculous desire to play a real life game of Risk. That doesn't mean the US taxpayer should be subsidizing the defense of an entire continent. We saved that continent 80 years ago and then rebuilt their entire economy and society single handidly. It's time for Europe to grow up.
Posted on 12/4/23 at 7:45 pm to StormyMcMan
quote:All NATOs fault? No!
So we are back onto It's all NATOs fault again?
Partially? Absolutely!
Posted on 12/4/23 at 7:46 pm to Scuttle But
quote:
This war is all on Putin
Posted on 12/4/23 at 7:46 pm to Scuttle But
quote:
So is there ever a point when we can say "Hey guys, we realize you were all fricked up after WWII and we helped out but it's tike for yall to grow up and move out of daddy's basement and pay for your own shite"
One has to decide how much our authority in the world is worth. We have incredible sway over the vast majority of the first world countries. This is very useful. China is buying control over a huge chunk of the 3rd world. If we let our power go someone else will fill the vacuum.
Posted on 12/4/23 at 7:47 pm to Obtuse1
Good point. Maybe we should shift our investments elsewhere to counter China. I mean it's not like Europe would abandon us for China right?
This post was edited on 12/4/23 at 7:48 pm
Posted on 12/4/23 at 7:48 pm to Scuttle But
quote:you mean like what we literally are doing?
Maybe we should shift our investments elsewhere to counter China
Posted on 12/4/23 at 7:52 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
you mean like what we literally are doing?
You're correct. We have been shifting. However my opposition to the US involvement with Nato predates the Ukraine war and my position hasn't changed. Our investment against China's influence isn't enough. We're still losing that fight. South America and Africa are all shifting in China's favor and we should be doing more to counter that. Ukraine and Russia is a sideshow.
Posted on 12/4/23 at 8:02 pm to Scuttle But
there is nothing we can do to fight china's debt trap loan giving to third world countries in africa. if these countries want to sell themselves to build unrealistic infrastructure projects, not sure whats there for us
all we can do is continue to push energy
i dont disagree with latin america. we are not doing enough there but we are absolutely doing a good job in the pacific in locking them into the 1st island chain
all we can do is continue to push energy
i dont disagree with latin america. we are not doing enough there but we are absolutely doing a good job in the pacific in locking them into the 1st island chain
Posted on 12/4/23 at 8:07 pm to WestCoastAg
ISW Update
quote:
Key Takeaways:
Russia continues to reckon with the economic ramifications of labor shortages partially resulting from the war in Ukraine.
Ukraine's Western partners continue efforts to provide Ukraine with military and economic support.
Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko discussed deepening Belarusian-Chinese relations with Chinese President Xi Jinping in Beijing, China on December 4.
Kremlin-backed United Russia State Duma deputies and Federation Council senators proposed a bill to introduce criminal punishments for leaking personal data, likely as part of ongoing efforts to control the Russian information space ahead of the March 2024 Russian presidential elections.
The Kremlin likely continues efforts to insert itself into power vacuums in several African countries as Wagner Group elements continue to operate in the Central African Republic (CAR).
Voronezh Oblast Governor Alexander Gusev confirmed on December 4 the death of Russian 14th Army Corps Deputy Commander Major General Vladimir Zavadsky in Ukraine.
Russian forces conducted offensive operations along the Kupyansk-Svatove-Kreminna line, near Bakhmut, near Avdiivka, west and southwest of Donetsk City, in the Donetsk-Zaporizhia Oblast border area, and in western Zaporizhia Oblast and advanced in some areas on December 4.
Select Russian Duma deputies appear to be at odds over the issue of extending Russian conscript service.
Russian Presidental Administration Head for Domestic Policy Andrei Yarin reportedly visited occupied Ukraine as part of ongoing efforts to legitimize Russian authority over occupied Ukraine ahead of the March 2024 Russian presidential election.
Posted on 12/4/23 at 8:39 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
All NATOs fault? No! Partially? Absolutely!
You can’t honestly believe that if there was no NATO Russia would be a peaceful nation. Do you believe they would be living in peace along side Poland, Ukraine and Georgia?
There is war because of Russia. There wouldn’t be peace if there was no NATO, Russia would take care of that.
This post was edited on 12/4/23 at 8:43 pm
Posted on 12/4/23 at 8:46 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
One has to decide how much our authority in the world is worth. We have incredible sway over the vast majority of the first world countries. This is very useful. China is buying control over a huge chunk of the 3rd world. If we let our power go someone else will fill the vacuum.
Yeah, those people want to see a diminished America. They want China to lead the world.
Posted on 12/4/23 at 9:13 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
there is nothing we can do to fight china's debt trap loan giving to third world countries in africa. if these countries want to sell themselves to build unrealistic infrastructure projects, not sure whats there for us
China is offering free money and big projects, expecting long term influence and access to minerals. In this stage, China has not had to project hard power, military power, to defend its investments and its friends.
The next natural stage in Africa is that some other sect or group will try to take over from one of China’s friends. When that happens we will get to see how committed China is to doing something other than courting.
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