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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 12/5/23 at 5:42 pm to Lima Whiskey
Posted on 12/5/23 at 5:42 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:100% it was a willful act of punishment.
Holodomor as a willful act of punishment?
Again, facts are facts.
Stalin's evil makes Putin look cute and cuddly.
Posted on 12/5/23 at 5:43 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
Starvation happened, due to Soviet ineptitude, the system just didn’t work, but the Holodomor as a willful act of punishment? The people pushing that are lying to you. I assume it’s getting pushed for the convenient propagada purposes, and because the Holocaust is a supremely effective propaganda tool, so why not copy, but the Holodomor is not true. There’s no paper trail for it. There are no records in the old Soviet archives that show a purposeful campaign of starvation. It’s actually the opposite, there are records of Stalin cracking down on his subordinates because of the famine and their bungled response to it. And I say that, murder of Trotsky aside, which was a monumentally good thing, as someone who doesn’t like Stalin or the Soviets. The famine is said to have killed up to five million. In 1921 the Povolzhye famine in the Volga region killed five million. Herbert Hoover led the Western aid effort then.

Posted on 12/5/23 at 5:51 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
100% it was a willful act of punishment.
Again, facts are facts.
The Soviets did plenty of evil things, this one was just incompetence.
Posted on 12/5/23 at 5:54 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Sincere apologies. I am a bit multilingual, but I don't speak whatever that language is. Do you speak English?
Honestly don't bother with him. He literally stated earlier in this thread that Russia had already took over the entire donbas, was holding elections in territory they didn't occupy and that 100B was the same as 500B. As to what he is trying to say in this case is that somehow Ukrainian aid won't happen/be voted on because Johnson said that the border policy has to voted on in conjunction with Ukrainian aid. So that somehow means the US will stop providing assistance to Ukraine forever and Johnson is against it
Or how the news puts it
quote:
House Speaker Mike Johnson (R., La.) said in a letter to the White House on Tuesday that “supplemental Ukraine funding is dependent upon enactment of transformative change to our nation’s border security laws,” and pointed to House Republicans’ H.R. 2 immigration bill as a starting point. That bill passed the GOP-led House in May with no Democratic support and never got a vote in the Democratic-controlled Senate.
Posted on 12/5/23 at 5:58 pm to NC_Tigah
The full post from confused in the Tarheel State:
Then you said;
I agree 100%. At the start of the Russian full scale invasion (which wasn’t when the war started) it was February of 2022.
But only two months later (April of 22) you stated Zelensky went to the dark side and took bribes. Like I said, in two months you maintain he went from a great leader to scum. It’s all there to see. Why lie about it?
quote:
Zelenskyy was a good guy at the outset of his tenure. A very good guy in fact. He was tremendous at the outset of war when the west offered to assist his evacuation, and he demanded rifles instead. It's fair to say, his leadership saved, or was a very significant factor in saving Ukraine from total capitulation as Russian forces closed on Kyiv. He was fantastic when his pragmatism led to opening negotiations to end the war. He was great right up to April 2022.
But money corrupts, and he was offered a pile of it. The corruption started when Boris Johnson, et al decided the west had an opportunity to "press Putin" using young Ukrainian men as cannon fodder in a west vs Russia proxy war. Zelenskyy went along with the proposal, ended peace talks, and he is now quite a rich man because of it. Meanwhile, thousands of Ukrainian men are disfigured, deformed or dead as a result.
Then you said;
quote:
Zelenskyy was a good guy at the outset of his tenure. A very good guy in fact. He was tremendous at the outset of war
I agree 100%. At the start of the Russian full scale invasion (which wasn’t when the war started) it was February of 2022.
But only two months later (April of 22) you stated Zelensky went to the dark side and took bribes. Like I said, in two months you maintain he went from a great leader to scum. It’s all there to see. Why lie about it?
Posted on 12/5/23 at 6:06 pm to doubleb
quote:No! No! He did that in a matter of days in April 2022.
in two months you maintain he went from a great leader to scum
Cyndi Lauper had it right:
Money ... money changes everything.
I said money, money changes everything.
We think we know what we're doing, that don't mean a thing.
It's all in the past now, money changes everything.
Posted on 12/5/23 at 6:07 pm to StormyMcMan
quote:
Key elements that shaped the counteroffensive and the initial outcome include:
- Ukrainian, U.S. and British military officers held eight major tabletop war games to build a campaign plan. But Washington miscalculated the extent to which Ukraine’s forces could be transformed into a Western-style fighting force in a short period — especially without giving Kyiv air power integral to modern militaries.
- U.S. and Ukrainian officials sharply disagreed at times over strategy, tactics and timing. The Pentagon wanted the assault to begin in mid-April to prevent Russia from continuing to strengthen its lines. The Ukrainians hesitated, insisting they weren’t ready without additional weapons and training.
- U.S. military officials were confident that a mechanized frontal attack on Russian lines was feasible with the troops and weapons that Ukraine had. The simulations concluded that Kyiv’s forces, in the best case, could reach the Sea of Azov and cut off Russian troops in the south in 60 to 90 days.
- The United States advocated a focused assault along that southern axis, but Ukraine’s leadership believed its forces had to attack at three distinct points along the 600-mile front, southward toward both Melitopol and Berdyansk on the Sea of Azov and east toward the embattled city of Bakhmut.
- The U.S. intelligence community had a more downbeat view than the U.S. military, assessing that the offensive had only a 50-50 chance of success given the stout, multilayered defenses Russia had built up over the winter and spring.
- Many in Ukraine and the West underestimated Russia’s ability to rebound from battlefield disasters and exploit its perennial strengths: manpower, mines and a willingness to sacrifice lives on a scale that few other countries can countenance.
As the expected launch of the offensive approached, Ukrainian military officials feared they would suffer catastrophic losses — while American officials believed the toll would ultimately be higher without a decisive assault.
WaPo: Miscalculations, divisions marked offensive planning by U.S., Ukraine.
quote:
Key findings from reporting on the campaign include:
- Seventy percent of troops in one of the brigades leading the counteroffensive, and equipped with the newest Western weapons, entered battle with no combat experience.
- Ukraine’s setbacks on the battlefield led to rifts with the United States over how best to cut through deep Russian defenses.
- The commander of U.S. forces in Europe couldn’t get in touch with Ukraine’s top commander for weeks in the early part of the campaign amid tension over the American’s second-guessing of battlefield decisions.
- Each side blamed the other for mistakes or miscalculations. U.S. military officials concluded that Ukraine had fallen short in basic military tactics, including the use of ground reconnaissance to understand the density of minefields. Ukrainian officials said the Americans didn’t seem to comprehend how attack drones and other technology had transformed the battlefield.
- In all, Ukraine has retaken only about 200 square miles of territory, at a cost of thousands of dead and wounded and billions in Western military aid in 2023 alone.
WaPo: In Ukraine, a war of incremental gains as counteroffensive stalls.
This post was edited on 12/5/23 at 6:09 pm
Posted on 12/5/23 at 6:17 pm to Errerrerrwere
quote:
No more Ukraine funding.
Incorrect, contingent upon Immigration law changes.
Posted on 12/5/23 at 6:54 pm to CitizenK
ISW Update
quote:
Key Takeaways:
Ukrainian forces reportedly conducted successful drone strikes against Russian military targets in occupied Crimea on the night of December 4 to 5.
Russian forces conducted a series of missile and drone strikes on civilian infrastructure in Ukraine on the night of December 4 and 5.
The Russian State Duma will reportedly consider a proposed bill that would recognize the Sea of Azov as an internal Russian body of water, likely setting conditions to coerce recognition of Russia’s illegal annexation of occupied Crimea and Kherson, Zaporizhia, and Donetsk oblasts.
Russian opposition party Yabloko founder Grigory Yavlinsky advocated for a ceasefire in Ukraine as part of his presidential bid likely in an attempt to distinguish himself from Russian President Vladimir Putin and give voice to Russians who support a ceasefire.
The Kremlin may be strategically allowing Yavlinsky to criticize the Russian government in order to preserve its veneer of electoral legitimacy and to delegitimize possible support for a ceasefire among factions in the Kremlin.
Russian President Vladimir Putin emphasized the benefits that migrants provide to the Russian economy, while promoting ongoing efforts to Russify migrants in Russia and citizens of post-Soviet countries.
Russian President Vladimir Putin will travel to the United Arab Emirates (UAE) and Saudia Arabia on December 6 and will host Iranian President Ibrahim Raisi in Russia on December 7— a bout of diplomatic outreach likely focused on strengthening Russia’s position with Gulf States while continuing to solidify the deepening Russian-Iranian security partnership.
Armenia appears to be effectively abstaining from participation in the Russian-led Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO).
The Kremlin continues to intensify censorship efforts, targeting prominent Russian messaging and social media app Telegram.
Russian forces continued offensive operations along the Kupyansk-Svatove-Kreminna line, near Bakhmut, near Avdiivka, west and southwest of Donetsk City, in the Donetsk-Zaporizhia Oblast border area, and in western Zaporizhia Oblast but did not make any confirmed advances.
Russian forces are reportedly quickly sending poorly trained convict recruits to reinforce assaults elements in Ukraine.
Russian occupation authorities are reportedly intensifying their seizure of Ukrainian property in occupied Berdyansk, Donetsk Oblast.
Posted on 12/5/23 at 7:14 pm to Bunk Moreland
Good analysis, Thxs for sharing.
Posted on 12/5/23 at 8:11 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:damn, genocide denial is pretty shitty
but the Holodomor as a willful act of punishment? The people pushing that are lying to you.
Posted on 12/5/23 at 8:38 pm to Bunk Moreland
Via friend who is a confidant and has dinner regularly with Polish military leadership. He was a Marine officer who was wounded in Lebanon then worked in the NSA under Reagan but medically discharged and became a poly sci prof in Poland.
Per him General Zaluzhyni wanted a single fist to attack the Russians but instead they were advised to have multiple attack points.
Per him General Zaluzhyni wanted a single fist to attack the Russians but instead they were advised to have multiple attack points.
Posted on 12/5/23 at 8:53 pm to CitizenK
quote:
Per him General Zaluzhyni wanted a single fist to attack the Russians but instead they were advised to have multiple attack points.
US claimed the opposite. We'll never know the truth. And, frankly, without air support and the unfathomable amount of mines Russia dropped, it probably didn't matter.
Sometimes, you just lose. Ukraine didn't have what it took to break the Russian lines. With F-16s, western weapons and continued training, they'll be better suited to defend themselves in the future... but, IMO, it ain't looking good for their 1991 borders.
EU + NATO is the most realistic "good" outcome for Ukraine, IMO, as it'll make them safe and rich.
Posted on 12/5/23 at 9:08 pm to doubleb
quote:
The bullet holes in the Presidential limo didn't make themselves, WeeWee. You can take sides if you'd like, just keep it truthful. I know Yanukovych says machine guns fired on his limo, was that proven?
No evidence was ever produced and when the Presidential limo was found at Yanukovych’s mansion it didn’t have any bullet holes on it.
Posted on 12/5/23 at 9:11 pm to CitizenK
quote:
It is a large MARSH, starting at the Polish border. Its where partisans hide and attacked during WWII. What could go wrong with such idiotic planning?
Don’t forget about their brilliant idea to travel through and dig into some of the deadliest ground on earth around Chernobyl.
Posted on 12/5/23 at 9:26 pm to LSUPilot07
quote:
output. I would call the fact that Ukraine is capable of producing 66 self propelled howitzers a year during wartime along with production of German IFVs and APCs set to start in 2024 pretty impressive.
1. Western Ukraine is pretty secure now that Ukraine’s air defenses are 10x better than they were last year.
2. Everyone likes to talk about Russia’s military-industrial capabilities but they forget that Ukraine was a major part of the USSR’s arms production. The former workers from those factories are too old to send to the front but not too old to go back into the factories and they are doing so in droves.
3. I don’t think ppl like NC_Tiger and others who say that Ukraine should make peace realize that prior to 2013 only the Ukrainians in far eastern Ukraine and Crimea liked Russia. The rest of Ukraine favored Europe and then were embarrassed by the Russian occupation of Crimea. 8 years of embarrassment, the historical wrongs Russia has committed against Ukraine, the atrocities like Bucha that Russian has committed against Ukraine have all led to Ukrainians hating Russia almost as much as the Palestinians hate Israel. Peace is not an option right now. Ukrainian troops would rebel and hang Zelensky from a light pole if he made peace now.
Posted on 12/5/23 at 10:01 pm to WeeWee
quote:
Ukrainian troops would rebel and hang Zelensky from a light pole if he made peace now.
Please let this happen
Posted on 12/5/23 at 10:39 pm to WeeWee
The US has spent more on Ukraine than they have on all of their road and bridges
Think about that. People supporting this funding care more about being right about this (which they aren't) than they do about the welfare of themselves and their neighbors.
America first please.
Think about that. People supporting this funding care more about being right about this (which they aren't) than they do about the welfare of themselves and their neighbors.
America first please.
Posted on 12/6/23 at 5:28 am to Errerrerrwere
British Defence Intelligence
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE
UPDATE ON UKRAINE 06 December 2023
Since mid-2023, Russia has almost certainly augmented Iranian-supplied Shahed one-way attack uncrewed aerial vehicles (OWA UAVs) with similar weapons made in facilities in Russia. Russia is now almost certainly attempting to incorporate improvements to the OWA UAV designs based on operational experience.
In late November 2023, a downed UAV was reported as being fitted with a Ukrainian SIM card and 4G modem. This is likely a Russian improvised modification to improve real-time guidance using cell towers to reduce reliance on satellite navigation. There is a realistic possibility that it is also attempting to mitigate Ukrainian electronic warfare measures.
Some other Russian-made OWA UAVs have likely been painted with a black finish, making it harder to visually identify the incoming drones at night. Russia is increasingly employing OWA UAVs in large raids in an attempt to overwhelm Ukrainian air defences. However, Ukraine continues to successfully neutralise the majority of incoming weapons.
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE
UPDATE ON UKRAINE 06 December 2023
Since mid-2023, Russia has almost certainly augmented Iranian-supplied Shahed one-way attack uncrewed aerial vehicles (OWA UAVs) with similar weapons made in facilities in Russia. Russia is now almost certainly attempting to incorporate improvements to the OWA UAV designs based on operational experience.
In late November 2023, a downed UAV was reported as being fitted with a Ukrainian SIM card and 4G modem. This is likely a Russian improvised modification to improve real-time guidance using cell towers to reduce reliance on satellite navigation. There is a realistic possibility that it is also attempting to mitigate Ukrainian electronic warfare measures.
Some other Russian-made OWA UAVs have likely been painted with a black finish, making it harder to visually identify the incoming drones at night. Russia is increasingly employing OWA UAVs in large raids in an attempt to overwhelm Ukrainian air defences. However, Ukraine continues to successfully neutralise the majority of incoming weapons.
Posted on 12/6/23 at 8:31 am to Errerrerrwere
The Biden administration has passed over $7 TRILLION in spending on the US and $100B on Ukraine, wtf are you gibbering about with the America First statement?
We have given Ukraine about $27B in cash.
We have given Ukraine about $27B in cash.
This post was edited on 12/6/23 at 8:34 am
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