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Message
re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 7/23/23 at 4:40 pm to BabysArmHoldingApple
Posted on 7/23/23 at 4:40 pm to BabysArmHoldingApple
quote:
Serious question: is it impossible to see any merit Russia’s position and be intellectually honest?
I'm guessing they are the same pro MAGA posters. Minds can't be changed.
1
Posted on 7/23/23 at 4:46 pm to BabysArmHoldingApple
It’s certainly possible to see merit in Russia’s position, if merit is “intectually honest” and merited.
Why don’t you take your shot at explaining the merits of that position and the invasion, and allow others to see if they have missed anything important.?
I would be most interested in hearing you out….
Why don’t you take your shot at explaining the merits of that position and the invasion, and allow others to see if they have missed anything important.?
I would be most interested in hearing you out….
Posted on 7/23/23 at 4:52 pm to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
I'm guessing they are the same pro MAGA posters. Minds can't be changed.
Well that's not true, I supported Ukraine for the first couple months.
Posted on 7/23/23 at 4:54 pm to SirWinston
So this is what you’re going with now, that Russia is christian and doing god’s work?
Posted on 7/23/23 at 4:55 pm to nitwit
If Russia had taken Kyiv and the Ukrainian government collapsed at the beginning of the war then the Western response would probably not have been much more substantial than it was when Russia annexed Crimea. Probably some sanctions and then everyone would have stopped caring after a while. But that attack failed and now Russia is stuck with a real war that they probably cannot win decisively and have to hold out hope that the west gets tired of spending money killing its soldiers to at least get some sort of redrawn lines.
Posted on 7/23/23 at 4:55 pm to nitwit
Guy visits a Russian shopping mall. TL;DW: Not super crowded but the stores are all open, albeit some under new, Russian ownership, and most look to be well stocked. Russia has a lot of fat people too. There's a pretty cool cylindrical aquarium in the middle of it with a scuba diver feeding the fish LINK
Posted on 7/23/23 at 4:55 pm to ColtRange
quote:
Well that's not true, I supported Ukraine for the first couple months.
What made you change your mind?
Posted on 7/23/23 at 5:00 pm to nitwit
quote:
Why don’t you take your shot at explaining the merits of that position and the invasion
I never said that it did or didn’t have merit. I posed the question because I was curious to see how others answered the question.
Invasions and wars and aggression go on all over the world and have since the beginning of time. I am trying to understand why people are so anxious to spend billions of our tax $$$ and get so deeply involved in this one and why people are so passionately supporting one side instead of being ambivalent or agnostic like so many other conflicts.
Posted on 7/23/23 at 5:10 pm to Hateradedrink
quote:
1. I love dead Russians
There you have it.
You’d love for Ukraine to keep pumping out bodies just so you can get off on dead people.
You know that’s what the majority of those dead Russians are huh? People. Just ordinary people following orders.
Just like any America soldier would.
You are sitting behind a keyboard hoping for death…so you can stoke some ego that seems to be attached to one side of a war that you are not involved in. Attached to validation from strangers on an Internet forum?
For what? To say you picked the “right” side. To say “I told you so”
Pathetic.
Posted on 7/23/23 at 5:41 pm to Hateradedrink
quote:
Siberian village emptied by war
quote:
Igor is an enthusiastic supporter of the war, repeating government narratives that Russia is "saving the world from American and Western influence." "What is our country built on?" he said. "The family and its development. Look at what is happening abroad: Everyone is gay. But we have traditional families -- a father, a mother, children.
Posted on 7/23/23 at 6:16 pm to doubleb
Posted on 7/23/23 at 6:28 pm to BabysArmHoldingApple
quote:
Invasions and wars and aggression go on all over the world and have since the beginning of time.
Since Saddam invaded Kuwait in 1991, invasions of conquest haven’t really happened. Since Iran and Iraq went to war in the 80s, the world has basically enjoyed a 40 year break from peer vs peer wars.
This stands in stark contrast to the 40 year period preceding the 1980s, and the 40 year period preceding that, and so on.
quote:
I am trying to understand why people are so anxious to spend billions of our tax $$$ and get so deeply involved in this one
Because I don’t want to go back to a world where peer to peer wars and wars of conquest are regularly waged. This is also the first of its kind on the European continent since 1940. North America, Europe and parts of Asia stand apart as the liberal world order. I want the liberal world order to continue to enjoy supremacy over the illiberal world order.
In my opinion, standing back and doing nothing very well could have kicked off a new world ordered revolving around Moscow and Beijing, and fueled illiberal forces in Europe and America.
Posted on 7/23/23 at 6:38 pm to ned nederlander
quote:
In my opinion, standing back and doing nothing very well could have kicked off a new world ordered revolving around Moscow and Beijing, and fueled illiberal forces in Europe and America.
Eh, that’s a stretch in my opinion. If anything we’re just seeing the inevitable death knell of Russia as a power on the global stage. What it has done is show that the west can use its economic and industrial might to at least stop Russia from advancing without using its own militaries. And when I say the west I mean the US because Western Europe would probably be faring about as well as Ukraine without our support.
But in my opinion the balance of power left Russian and went to China at least 20 years ago. This is just a very interesting sideshow.
Posted on 7/23/23 at 6:41 pm to LSUPilot07
quote:
Gripen is the better aircraft for their war.
Can any non stealth aircraft really operate effectively in a sophisticated air defense environment?
Posted on 7/23/23 at 6:45 pm to BabysArmHoldingApple
quote:
I never said that it did or didn’t have merit. I posed the question because I was curious to see how others answered the question.
Invasions and wars and aggression go on all over the world and have since the beginning of time. I am trying to understand why people are so anxious to spend billions of our tax $$$ and get so deeply involved in this one and why people are so passionately supporting one side instead of being ambivalent or agnostic like so many other conflicts.
After the Soviet Union collapsed, America, UK and Russia convinced Ukraine to give up their nuclear arms in exchange for a guarantee of their sovereignty. Ukraine gave up their nuclear arms.
Posted on 7/23/23 at 6:45 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
I am of the opinion that if we had done what we’re doing now, 10 years ago, 2022 would have never happened.
So what we’re doing now hopefully will prevent another unknown SMO in the future.
So what we’re doing now hopefully will prevent another unknown SMO in the future.
Posted on 7/23/23 at 6:49 pm to Auburn1968
quote:
After the Soviet Union collapsed, America, UK and Russia convinced Ukraine to give up their nuclear arms in exchange for a guarantee of their sovereignty. Ukraine gave up their nuclear arms.
Libya is a similar case study. Convinced Libya to give up nukes, and a couple years later we help kill Gaddafi.
Moral of the story, if you give up nukes you get screwed. Having a 0 nuke world at this point is impossible.
Posted on 7/23/23 at 6:59 pm to OleVaught14
quote:
Libya is a similar case study. Convinced Libya to give up nukes, and a couple years later we help kill Gaddafi.
When did Libya ever have nukes?
Posted on 7/23/23 at 7:03 pm to CitizenK
Sorry, gave up on nukes. They had a nuclear program and were actively working towards development. They agreed to stop that program, dismantle all process made, and then without the threat of nuclear development Gaddafi ended up dead a handful of years later. Had they continued developing, that likely would never had happened.
They also gave up a fairly large supply of chemical weapons.
They also gave up a fairly large supply of chemical weapons.
This post was edited on 7/23/23 at 7:09 pm
Posted on 7/23/23 at 7:10 pm to OleVaught14
The Obama administration’s biggest foreign policy failure was the Syrian intervention, which led to the Arab spring and the Libyan civil war. The west’s intervention in the Libyan civil war encouraged by HRC who thought she could use on her presidential run scorecard. The Benghazi happened and no one wants to talk about it anymore. The Libyan civil war also directly led to the current conflicts in west Africa in Mali, Niger, Burkina Faso and is spreading south to the coast.
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