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Message
re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 7/21/23 at 4:00 pm to LSUPilot07
Posted on 7/21/23 at 4:00 pm to LSUPilot07
quote:
It was actually a bit of a shitshow with them being dropped all over the countryside miles from their objectives. Units were all mixed together where they landed but they were well trained and there were a lot of them which helped tremendously. Also the Germans for the most part were focused on beaches come dawn when naval guns opened up and aircraft started their attacks.
No doubt. Not everyone landed in the correct places, but as you stated their training and their instincts took over and they figured things out as best they could.
They held key bridges, key towns and were able to allow the guys on the beaches to take care of coastal defenders without German reinforcements pouring in.
The Germans were very confused. Their command at first wasn’t convinced Normandy was the real deal. The airborne troops too led to the confusion as not all the Germans knew where to attack. Their response wasn’t coherent.
1
Posted on 7/21/23 at 4:02 pm to doubleb
quote:
The Germans were very confused. Their command at first wasn’t convinced Normandy was the real deal. The airborne troops too led to the confusion as not all the Germans knew where to attack. Their response wasn’t coherent.
It also lead the stand to think it was a much larger airborne drop than it actually was. There were so many reports of airborne drops from all over Normandy, the Germans were totally confused as to what the hell was going on or how many troopers had actually landed.
This post was edited on 7/21/23 at 4:03 pm
Posted on 7/21/23 at 4:43 pm to Darth_Vader
In a way the German AA defenses caused a lot of those confusions by scattering the troops. The C-47 pilots had to break formation to take evasive maneuvers which really put a wrench in the original plan but the Germans ended up taking fire from so many different directions from hodgepodge groups of soldiers of the 20,000 guys that jumped between the U.S. and British forces.
Posted on 7/21/23 at 9:17 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Low level static line assaults should’ve gone by the wayside 50 years ago.
The two most effective mass airborne insertions in history have been in the last 35 years.
Just like every tool in the toolbox, its usefulness requires a specific set of circumstances.
The Battle of Vasylkiv shouldn't be seen as an indictment of air insertion just because the VDV's tactical plans were fricked up like a football bat.
Posted on 7/21/23 at 9:35 pm to Obtuse1
Yeah but like another poster said, if you have the ability to set the right conditions it’s probably not necessary to even conduct a massive airborne insertion. The US army spends a frick ton of money and time on airborne training and it’s probably not worth the squeeze. It’s mostly done out of tradition at this point in my opinion.
Posted on 7/21/23 at 9:40 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
I can almost buy what you’re selling but one thing keeps my money in my pocket…having real airborne and air assault capabilities is a differentiator for the US. It gives us options that help keep opponents tied down.
It’s like the Marines, no other country on earth has a capability like the US Marines, Iraq had to task a lot of troops to the coast in case the Marines came ashore.
It’s like the Marines, no other country on earth has a capability like the US Marines, Iraq had to task a lot of troops to the coast in case the Marines came ashore.
This post was edited on 7/21/23 at 9:50 pm
Posted on 7/21/23 at 11:03 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
The two most effective mass airborne insertions in history have been in the last 35 years.
Which were those?
Posted on 7/21/23 at 11:10 pm to Mr Happy
Posted on 7/22/23 at 12:40 am to DabosDynasty
Smart to try it at night if they are going to try a move. The Ukrainians have far better night vision capabilities than the Russians do. It won’t help much if they have their Ka-52 helicopters working tonight though. This is where the f-16 would probably be of its greatest benefit by keeping tank hunting attack helicopters on the ground giving the armor and infantry a little breathing room. The f-16’s radar will be able to track a Ka-52 long before the helicopter can see the f-16.
This post was edited on 7/22/23 at 12:44 am
Posted on 7/22/23 at 2:54 am to LSUPilot07
British Defence Intelligence
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE
UPDATE ON UKRAINE 22 July 2023
Russian former intelligence officer and leading nationalist mil-blogger Igor Girkin was almost certainly arrested for 'extremism' on 21 July 2023. Girkin has long been a critic of the Russian Ministry of Defence's conduct of the war. However, in recent days his comments have turned to direct criticism of Russian President Vladimir Putin and his time in power.
The move is likely to infuriate fellow members of the mil-blogger community - and elements within the serving military - who largely see Girkin as an astute military analyst and patriot. He played a major role in Russia's war in the Donbas from 2014 and spent months on the front line in 2022.
While Girkin is no ally of the Wagner Group, he was likely only prepared to push the limits of public criticism in the context of Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin's June 2023 abortive mutiny. The taboo against unmasked criticism of the Putin regime has been significantly weakened.
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE
UPDATE ON UKRAINE 22 July 2023
Russian former intelligence officer and leading nationalist mil-blogger Igor Girkin was almost certainly arrested for 'extremism' on 21 July 2023. Girkin has long been a critic of the Russian Ministry of Defence's conduct of the war. However, in recent days his comments have turned to direct criticism of Russian President Vladimir Putin and his time in power.
The move is likely to infuriate fellow members of the mil-blogger community - and elements within the serving military - who largely see Girkin as an astute military analyst and patriot. He played a major role in Russia's war in the Donbas from 2014 and spent months on the front line in 2022.
While Girkin is no ally of the Wagner Group, he was likely only prepared to push the limits of public criticism in the context of Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin's June 2023 abortive mutiny. The taboo against unmasked criticism of the Putin regime has been significantly weakened.
Posted on 7/22/23 at 6:25 am to cypher
Ammunition storage points detonates in Crimea due to UAV attack; civilians evacuated
Roman Petrenko — Saturday, 22 July 2023, 12:25
Russian occupying "authorities" in Crimea report an attack by UAVs in the Krasnohvardiiske district; the civilians are being evacuated.
Source: Sergei Aksyonov, the so-called head of the Russian administration in occupied Crimea; ChP Sevastopol [Emergencies Sevastopol]
Details: Aksyonov says that drones "tried" to attack infrastructure facilities, but soldiers are already on the spot "to deal with the possible aftermath".
Meanwhile, social media reports about the strike of several drones at the oil depot and airfield, as well as the detonation of ammunition.
Crimea’s residents are already panicking about the videos that appeared on social media.
The "advisor to the head" of the occupied Crimea threatens the residents with the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) for posting these videos.
Update: Later, Aksyonov admitted that a hit by a UAV had detonated the storage points.
several videos...
Ukrainska Pravda
Roman Petrenko — Saturday, 22 July 2023, 12:25
Russian occupying "authorities" in Crimea report an attack by UAVs in the Krasnohvardiiske district; the civilians are being evacuated.
Source: Sergei Aksyonov, the so-called head of the Russian administration in occupied Crimea; ChP Sevastopol [Emergencies Sevastopol]
Details: Aksyonov says that drones "tried" to attack infrastructure facilities, but soldiers are already on the spot "to deal with the possible aftermath".
Meanwhile, social media reports about the strike of several drones at the oil depot and airfield, as well as the detonation of ammunition.
Crimea’s residents are already panicking about the videos that appeared on social media.
The "advisor to the head" of the occupied Crimea threatens the residents with the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) for posting these videos.
Update: Later, Aksyonov admitted that a hit by a UAV had detonated the storage points.
several videos...
Ukrainska Pravda
Posted on 7/22/23 at 6:35 am to LSUPilot07
ISW Update
quote:
Key Takeaways:
The arrest of former Russian officer and ardent ultranationalist Igor Girkin (Strelkov) on July 21 may be the public manifestation of a shifting balance of power among Kremlin factions, possibly to the detriment of the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB), in which Girkin had served.
Russian insider sources claimed that Girkin’s arrest is part of the Russian Presidential Administration’s efforts to crack down on select high-profile Russian ultranationalists following Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin’s armed rebellion on June 24.
Girkin’s arrest follows other criminal charges against ultranationalists with past ties to Russian security services and indicates that unknown Russian officials may be targeting prominent ultranationalists who routinely reveal insider information about the Kremlin.
Wagner’s rebellion likely shifted the balance of power in the Kremlin, potentially depriving some patrons – including Girkin’s patron – of Putin’s favor and, therefore, of some of their power.
Russian forces conducted missile and drone strikes against southern Ukraine for a fourth night on July 21 following Russia’s withdrawal from the Black Sea Grain Initiative.
The Kremlin appears to be attempting to soften the Russian Ministry of Defense's July 19 announcement about viewing civilian ships in the Black Sea as legitimate military targets.
Russia is maneuvering to retain the option of modifying the current agreement rather than negotiating an entirely new one as it seeks to extract extensive concessions from the West.
Russian President Vladimir Putin continued efforts to sow intra-NATO and Ukrainian-NATO divisions likely aimed at supporting the Kremlin’s Black Sea Grain Initiative effort and undermining long-term Western support for Ukraine.
Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations on at least three sectors of the front on July 21 and made gains in some areas.
Pro-Wagner Group sources continue to express loyalty to Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin as the future of the Wagner Group and Prigozhin’s role in the organization remains unclear.
French Presidential Foreign Policy Advisor Emmanuel Bonne was likely referring to dual-use technology and non-lethal aid when speaking about Chinese supplied equipment to Russia on July 21.
A Russian milblogger affiliated with the Russian Airborne Forces claimed that recent speculations about the dismissal of 7th Guards Mountain VDV Division Commander Major General Alexander Kornev are false.
Russian forces conducted offensive operations in the Kupyansk, Kreminna, Bakhmut areas, and along the Avdiivka-Donetsk City line and reportedly advanced in the Kupyansk and Kreminna areas.
Ukrainian forces conducted counteroffensive operations in the Bakhmut area, and along the Kupyansk-Svatove-Kreminna and Avdiivka Donetsk City lines, and advanced in the Bakhmut area.
Russian forces conducted limited ground attacks in western Donetsk Oblast, the western Donetsk-eastern Zaporizhia Oblast area, and south of Orikhiv, and reportedly advanced south of Orikhiv.
Ukrainian forces conducted counteroffensive operations in the western Donetsk-eastern Zaporizhia Oblast area and in western Zaporizhia Oblast and made gains in the western Donetsk-eastern Zaporizhia Oblast area.
Russian officials announced that they will amend a Russian State Duma bill originally aimed at incrementally raising the conscription age so that there is an immediate increase of the upper age limit for the spring 2024 conscription cycle.
Russian occupation authorities continue to relocate Ukrainian children in occupied Ukraine to Russia.
A Wagner-linked source reported that Wagner temporarily relocated its headquarters from Molkino, Krasnodar Krai, to Belarus and that Wagner’s work to transfer combat experience to the Belarusian military is in full swing.
Posted on 7/22/23 at 6:44 am to StormyMcMan
quote:
TASS states railway traffic on the Crimea Bridge has been suspended.
Unknown how long it will be suspended for.
I wonder if it is a precaution due to explosions in Crimea or due to the damage it sustained a few days ago
LINK
Posted on 7/22/23 at 8:25 am to Mr Happy
OJS (Operation Just Cause) when we invaded Panama in 1989 and OND (Operation Northern Delay) in Northern Iraq in 2003.
The first was a successful airfield interdiction and the second forced Iraq to keep multiple divisions in the north and delayed them from getting into the real fight. In OND 1,000 paratroopers from the 173rd held tens of thousands of Iraqi troops in limbo.
I understand the idea that (mass dropped) paratroopers are and maybe never have been significantly useful but that really is looking at it through the risk-averse lens of today. There may come a time when one can't be so risk-averse and paratroopers are a useful tool, even if many of them and their plane drivers don't make it to the drop zone.
While I am obviously biased the ability of the 82nd to put a BCT of the best division-level light infantry in the world on the ground anywhere in 18 hours or less whether there is an airstrip or not is a capability I do not think we can afford to give up.
The first was a successful airfield interdiction and the second forced Iraq to keep multiple divisions in the north and delayed them from getting into the real fight. In OND 1,000 paratroopers from the 173rd held tens of thousands of Iraqi troops in limbo.
I understand the idea that (mass dropped) paratroopers are and maybe never have been significantly useful but that really is looking at it through the risk-averse lens of today. There may come a time when one can't be so risk-averse and paratroopers are a useful tool, even if many of them and their plane drivers don't make it to the drop zone.
While I am obviously biased the ability of the 82nd to put a BCT of the best division-level light infantry in the world on the ground anywhere in 18 hours or less whether there is an airstrip or not is a capability I do not think we can afford to give up.
This post was edited on 7/23/23 at 6:48 am
Posted on 7/22/23 at 8:26 am to StormyMcMan
I find the dichotomy of some reporting interesting
From a pro Russian source
LINK
First reply
From a pro Ukraine source
LINK
First response
From a pro Russian source
quote:
RIA war correspondent Rostislav Zhuravlyov was killed in an artillery strike in Zaporozhye oblast. He was a talented reporter and, from what I hear, a good man. Several other journalists were wounded. Rest in peace.
He was also a veteran of the Donbass War; photo is from 2014. After the Minsk ceasefire, he went into journalism. He spent most of the current war as a frontline reporter, always in the thick of it. I enjoyed his work.
LINK
First reply
quote:
Salute
From a pro Ukraine source
quote:
Russian military propagandist from the Kremlin dump "RIA Novosti" Rostislav Zhuravlev was killed in the shelling.
The Russian Defense Ministry said that a group of Russian propagandists were hit with cluster munitions. Zhuravlev was killed and several of his colleagues were wounded to varying degrees of severity.
LINK
First response
quote:
Already forgotten, not missed. Who was he?
Posted on 7/22/23 at 9:25 am to StormyMcMan
quote:
Meanwhile in Russia: appearing on state TV, retired Colonel Konstantin Sivkov, Deputy President of the Russian Academy of Rocket and Artillery Sciences, suggested blowing up the North Pole if that's what it takes to teach the West a lesson.
Video:
"Nuke the North Pole!" That's a new one.
This post was edited on 7/22/23 at 9:26 am
Posted on 7/22/23 at 9:26 am to StormyMcMan
Biden administration decision making process explained by Jake Sullivan...
The White House is considering providing the Ukrainian Armed Forces with ATACMS long-range missiles, White House National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, said on July 21.
The long-range missiles had previously been supplied by the United Kingdom and France and have been effectively used by Ukrainian forces.
“This matter is constantly discussed with President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, and I deeply regret that I cannot tell you today what the outcome will be,” Sullivan stated.
The United States is willing to take calculated risks in offering military aid to Ukraine, but it remains cautious in providing military aid to Ukraine, while “trying to align its composition with the changing strategic situation,” Sullivan said.
“We take an action, then observe how Russia responds or doesn’t respond to it, take the next step, observe Russia’s response or lack thereof, and this is a highly organized process,” he clarified.
“Over the past 16 months, we have not been static; we have adapted as the war has evolved.”
The New Voice of Ukraine
The White House is considering providing the Ukrainian Armed Forces with ATACMS long-range missiles, White House National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, said on July 21.
The long-range missiles had previously been supplied by the United Kingdom and France and have been effectively used by Ukrainian forces.
“This matter is constantly discussed with President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, and I deeply regret that I cannot tell you today what the outcome will be,” Sullivan stated.
The United States is willing to take calculated risks in offering military aid to Ukraine, but it remains cautious in providing military aid to Ukraine, while “trying to align its composition with the changing strategic situation,” Sullivan said.
“We take an action, then observe how Russia responds or doesn’t respond to it, take the next step, observe Russia’s response or lack thereof, and this is a highly organized process,” he clarified.
“Over the past 16 months, we have not been static; we have adapted as the war has evolved.”
The New Voice of Ukraine
This post was edited on 7/22/23 at 9:28 am
Posted on 7/22/23 at 9:45 am to cypher
Sullivan sounds like a pussy.
Posted on 7/22/23 at 9:55 am to GOP_Tiger
The arrest of Girkin is apparently part of a larger campaign against the Russian propaganda community. A report on the situation, Twitter Link to Report directly calls out some of our favorite Russian TV and radio propagandists, including Vladimir Solovyov and Margarita Simonyan. It will be interesting to see if the messaging changes or if any “vacations” are taken.
Posted on 7/22/23 at 9:56 am to cypher
I’m almost sick of hearing about the ATACMS now. Biden needs to wake up from his nap long enough to make a decision one way or the other. Send them 100 of our oldest missiles that maybe are due for destruction and tell them to the U.S. wants final approval of potential targets if they are that worried about them being used on Russian soil. Problem is they still can’t be used to hit Kerch Bridge as they are still
About 20 miles out of range if you were firing from Kherson so that would out as a target.
About 20 miles out of range if you were firing from Kherson so that would out as a target.
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