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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 6/25/23 at 6:19 pm to SirWinston
Posted on 6/25/23 at 6:19 pm to SirWinston
Pettifogger denies the existence of posts like this
Posted on 6/25/23 at 6:32 pm to LegendInMyMind
This Youtube Russian guy has been doing some great streams and spends the first hour here with a thoughtful recap and analysis of events. Maybe he gets some predictions wrong but he's locked in to the situation:
Youtube
Says that he thinks the story about Lukashenko negotiating the deal with Prig is bullshite, that it was actually former Putin bodyguard Dyumin who Putin installed as the Governor of Tula Oblast that Wagner was travelling through to get to Moscow. Dyumin is a somewhat behind the scenes type guy but he's also been floated in the past as Putin's successor.
Also says he thinks Putin promised Prig the control of 3 wealthy provinces in southern Russia where Prig can generate major cashflow plus immunity and maybe the ability to make big bucks with a corrupt procurement position in the military. And that Gerasimov and Shoigu will be canned soon and probably imprisoned and that Dyumin will get one of their jobs.
And that all of this shows great weakness on the part of Putin so the question is when, not if, somebody who wants power makes another move. There are factions in Russia who would love to take power and they could be getting itchy to make a move fearing that someone else could jump at the opportunity first. Says that Putin may not last the summer.
Youtube
Says that he thinks the story about Lukashenko negotiating the deal with Prig is bullshite, that it was actually former Putin bodyguard Dyumin who Putin installed as the Governor of Tula Oblast that Wagner was travelling through to get to Moscow. Dyumin is a somewhat behind the scenes type guy but he's also been floated in the past as Putin's successor.
Also says he thinks Putin promised Prig the control of 3 wealthy provinces in southern Russia where Prig can generate major cashflow plus immunity and maybe the ability to make big bucks with a corrupt procurement position in the military. And that Gerasimov and Shoigu will be canned soon and probably imprisoned and that Dyumin will get one of their jobs.
And that all of this shows great weakness on the part of Putin so the question is when, not if, somebody who wants power makes another move. There are factions in Russia who would love to take power and they could be getting itchy to make a move fearing that someone else could jump at the opportunity first. Says that Putin may not last the summer.
This post was edited on 6/25/23 at 6:33 pm
Posted on 6/25/23 at 6:38 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
I think that this is a very useful chart. Ukraine had a horrible 1st day of the offensive, with the Bradleys, Leopards, etc. destroyed.
But Ukraine had to give it a go: just take your newly trained brigades and see how well they can execute combined arms attack, and how well the Russians can defend. But the losses were absolutely unsustainable.
So, Ukraine switched to working much more slowly and methodically.
As others have mentioned there is a very large difference in damage platforms in favour of Ukraine. How many of those are recoverable is a different story or course.
There was some footage just prior to the Wagner story that Ukraine had control over the territory where we saw the Leo's and Bradley's smashed up early on, will see if I can dredge it up.
Other interesting statistics from that list:
21 Russian to 6 Ukrainian for artillery.
23 Russian to 3 Ukrainian for trucks.
This denotes a focus on logistics and fire support by Ukraine which has been backed up by their deeper strikes as well.
Posted on 6/25/23 at 6:43 pm to OutsideObserver
Russian's are asking some real questions of their government.
https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1673013402132705285
https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1673013402132705285
quote:
Russian "military blogger", supporter of war in Ukraine Voenkor Kotenok:
"It's time to summarize.
1. Of course, this is not a show. Aircraft were shot down. Pilots have been killed. Sure, we have "plenty" of airplanes in the country with helicopters. An armed military unit almost made it to the capital within 8 hours. The question arises - where is the Minister of Defense? We used to be shown a colonel general commanding a rifle platoon with shouts, "Forward, for the Motherland!" And may I ask, what prevented such a picture from being filmed now? Where is the CHOD (Chief of General Staff) with the operational directorates? Where is an address to his servicemen?
The President spoke, clearly stating this was a military rebellion. And where was the leadership of the Defense Ministry at the time of the armed unit's approach to Moscow? The patrols approached Kashira. Or is it the function of the FSB, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, and the National Guard to stop military units near the capital? But they have light weapons. The most they can do is to protect themselves in their buildings. In this case, very little can be demanded of them.
A question to the leadership of the Ministry of Defense: not only did you allow all this to happen - because if you had behaved normally, perhaps this would not have happened - but where were you on the day this was happening? Or are you only allowed to film clips when there is no threat so you can demonstrate a show to the President the show? Come to your senses, this is not a show. The country has been at war for a year.
2. The history of the events of 1991-1993 was repeated when the phones in the offices of high-ranking officials, who had to make the decisions, went silent. Is it okay that even an operational headquarters for suppressing the rebellion was not created?
No one knows what the negotiations were. Something was brewing internally, something was agreed upon. Thanks to Lukashenko and whoever it was. To the man who saved the country from the disgrace of taking the capital, God bless him.
3. They walked for 8 hours at average speed of a regular bus. It is a question of the loyalty of the elites to current state power. Do we really have to stop a military unit advancing on Moscow with road equipment and road works?
Wagner Group shot down the planes that attacked them. But the authorities have already reached an agreement with them, so there are minimal questions for them now. The question for us is, why give an order to aviation to assault a civilian road? Couldn't we make obstructions? Wasn't there a single tank from Moscow to Rostov to put on the road? Or organize a normal checkpoint and start talking? Not shoot, but negotiate to stop the convoy. Once again, where is military leadership? This is its direct function.
There are a lot of complaints against Wagner: armed, they went to Moscow. You can't behave like that when the country is at war. But besides them, there are a couple of other particularly talented figures. The command to raise helicopters and planes and to attacks a mixed convoy, in which, among other things, civilians are riding about their business, is "genius."
4. By the way, what will we do if the enemy comes like this tomorrow? They will go into the forest in Sumy region and will come out as a sub-unit near Kaluga and go to Moscow. Will it be the same? We will run like chickens without heads around the henhouse and try to flee the capital as far away as as we can? Scary scenarios. I don't even want to imagine.
5. To what level has the most respected and authoritative agency - the Ministry of Defense - been brought? Under martial law, it is not the head of the FSSD (Federal Security Service Directorate) that becomes the chief, but the senior military commander. They have introduced the counterterrorism operation regime, but where is the work of the COR HQ? Who was preparing the defense of Moscow? The government of Moscow and the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
Posted on 6/25/23 at 6:43 pm to GOP_Tiger
Screenshot of the fortifications in the immediate area according to Brady Afrik.
Link to interactive map.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1rRKs40IEbGRsV0Fhky25l5OkPJ_vUvQ&ll=46.554302301471516%2C32.74803296152918&z=11
Link to interactive map.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1rRKs40IEbGRsV0Fhky25l5OkPJ_vUvQ&ll=46.554302301471516%2C32.74803296152918&z=11
Posted on 6/25/23 at 6:48 pm to OutsideObserver
To return to some older news - this is an article by NY times from about 10 days ago about the breach of the Kakhovka dam, take the source as you will. Apologies if it was already shared.
Why the Evidence Suggests Russia Blew Up the Kakhovka Dam - NY Times Gift Article.
Why the Evidence Suggests Russia Blew Up the Kakhovka Dam - NY Times Gift Article.
Posted on 6/25/23 at 6:54 pm to CitizenK
quote:
russia has a BIG problem...
a few russian units switched sides and joined wagner in this little game.. here they are.
That was Prigozhin's main play knowing that rank and file troops had no faith in their leadership and little interest in dying for Putin's Peter the Great dreams.
Posted on 6/25/23 at 6:58 pm to Auburn1968
Wait.
Wait.
The coup against Vladimir Putin has begun yet or you guys honestly believed that shite?

Wait.
The coup against Vladimir Putin has begun yet or you guys honestly believed that shite?
Posted on 6/25/23 at 6:59 pm to Errerrerrwere
quote:
The coup against Vladimir Putin has begun yet or you guys honestly believed that shite?
You think the whole thing was fake?
Posted on 6/25/23 at 7:06 pm to Errerrerrwere
quote:
Errerrerrwere
As always. Deep thoughts and great sharing. Riveting actually
Posted on 6/25/23 at 7:16 pm to Auburn1968
This is major since there were tactical nukes stored there.
quote:
4) Unit 14254: 387th Object "C" of the 12th Main Defence Ministry Directorate (nuclear) in the military town of Voronezh-45. Switched sides/surrendered without any resistance.
Posted on 6/25/23 at 7:18 pm to notiger1997
quote:
Russian intelligence services threatened to harm the families of Wagner leaders before Yevgeny Prigozhin called off his advance on Moscow, according to UK security sources.
article from the Telegraph
Posted on 6/25/23 at 7:26 pm to Errerrerrwere
quote:
you guys honestly believed that shite?
EITMLI5 your belief on what transpired.
Posted on 6/25/23 at 7:28 pm to Errerrerrwere
Seriously, please educate us on what really happened.
Can you?
Can you?
Posted on 6/25/23 at 7:32 pm to Chromdome35
quote:
Seriously, please educate us on what really happened.
The CIA set it up. Putin the all powerful stomped the uprising down and is a god and the US looks weaker.
That’s kind of what I get from reading lots of post from his kind
Posted on 6/25/23 at 7:33 pm to StormyMcMan
ISW Update
quote:
Russian sources speculated on the specifics of the deal mediated by Belarusian dictator Alexander Lukashenko to end the Wagner Group’s June 23-24 armed rebellion, including the possible involvement of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s chief of staff. Russian opposition outlet Meduza, citing unnamed internal Kremlin sources, reported that Prigozhin initially tried to get in touch with the Russian Presidential Administration midday June 24 as Wagner fighters moved north from Rostov-on-Don towards Moscow, but that Putin refused to speak with Prigozhin.[1] Meduza noted that, once Prigozhin observed the lack of widespread military support for Wagner’s actions and changed his mind on Wagner’s prospects, the Kremlin turned to negotiations involving Lukashenko, Chief of Staff of the Russian Presidential Office Anton Vaino, and Russian Ambassador to Belarus Boris Gryzlov. Vaino and Gryzlov’s possible involvement was not reported on June 24. A prominent Kremlin-affiliated milblogger also questioned whether the deal will hold Wagner or Prigozhin accountable in any way for the deaths of at least 13 Russian airman on June 24.[2] Prigozhin’s whereabouts cannot be verified beyond his departure from Rostov-on-Don late on June 24. Russian outlet RTVI claimed that Prigozhin’s press service told RTVI that Prigozhin “sends his regards” and will answer all questions “when he is on normal communication,” and a prominent Wagner-affiliated Telegram channel shared an AI-generated image of Prigozhin holding a finger to his lips and stating “plans love silence,” a copy of the phrase commonly used in Ukraine about operational security.[3] As ISW noted on June 24, the specifics of the deal are still unclear in the open source beyond speculation and rumor. The fallout of Wagner’s armed rebellion has not yet concluded, and it remains to be seen how the deal will be implemented, if all involved parties will comply fully, how the Kremlin and Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) intend to do with Wagner personnel - and if Wagner fighters will cooperate, regardless of Prigozhin’s wishes.
quote:
The implications of the Lukashenko-Prigozhin deal for the leadership of the Russian MoD also remain ambiguous. Some Russian sources, including internal Kremlin sources cited by Meduza, suggested that the Kremlin may be considering changes to MoD leadership as part of the deal.[4] Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and Chief of the General Staff Army General Valery Gerasimov have not been seen or heard from since before Prigozhin announced the beginning of the armed rebellion on June 23. Some Russian sources suggested that Alexei Dyumin, the current governor of Tula Oblast, former security officer to Putin, and former head of Russia’s Special Operations Forces, may replace Shoigu as the Defense Minister, although ISW cannot confirm these speculations.[5] Any changes to the MoD leadership would notably represent a significant victory for Prigozhin, who justified his armed rebellion by directly accusing Shoigu and Gerasimov of the deaths of tens of thousands of Russian soldiers in Ukraine.[6]
quote:
Wagner forces continued to withdraw from positions in Rostov and on the road to Moscow to their bases on June 25, and the Kremlin’s intended structure for leveraging Wagner fighters remains unclear. Geolocated footage published on June 25 shows armed Wagner forces driving south away from Moscow near Voronezh City.[7] Footage published on June 25 purportedly shows Wagner forces returning to training camps in southern Russia.[8] The fact that Wagner is returning to their training camps with military equipment indicates that the Kremlin intends to maintain at least certain elements of Wagner’s manpower rather than seek to immediately demobilize them, although the future of Wagner’s command and organizational structure are unclear. Russian State Duma Defense Committee Head Andrei Kartapolov announced on June 25 that the State Duma is working on a law that would regulate private military companies (PMCs) but emphasized that it is not necessary to ban the Wagner Group as it is “the most combat-ready unit in Russia.”[9] Kartapolov further noted that the future of the Wagner Group is undetermined and emphasized that the personnel of the Wagner Group in Rostov-on-Don were “following orders of their command” and “did nothing reprehensible.”[10] Kartapolov’s efforts to absolve Wagner personnel of responsibility for taking part in an armed rebellion and separate them from Prigozhin may indicate the Russian government’s desire to continue to use Wagner personnel in some capacity, and as ISW assessed on June 24, the Russian leadership could redeploy Wagner to Ukraine or instead commit them to international missions. Russian state-affiliated news outlets reported on June 24 that the Russian Federal Service for Supervision of Communications, Information Technology and Mass Media (Rozkomnadzor) blocked Prigozhin’s official press service on Russian social media site VKontakte, indicating the Kremlin’s efforts to restrict Prigozhin’s organizational actions.[11]
quote:
Key Takeaways
Russian sources speculated on the specifics of the deal mediated by Belarusian dictator Alexander Lukashenko to end the Wagner Group’s June 23-24 armed rebellion, including the possible involvement of Putin’s chief of staff.
The implications of the Lukashenko-Prigozhin deal for the leadership of the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) also remain ambiguous.
Wagner forces continued to withdraw from positions in Rostov and on the road to Moscow to their bases on June 25, and the Kremlin’s intended structure for leveraging Wagner fighters remains unclear.
Further details emerged on the composition of the Wagner units approaching Moscow on June 24, indicating Prigozhin would likely have struggled in an active conflict in Moscow without additional support.
The Russian ultranationalist information space fractured on June 25 between those who want to move past the rebellion and those demanding solutions to the internal security flaws that the rebellion exposed.
The ultranationalist Angry Patriots Club held a pre-scheduled event in Moscow on June 25 and espoused longstanding criticisms against Putin and the Russian military leadership, suggesting that the Kremlin will not immediately begin cracking down on antagonistic ultranationalist groups in the aftermath of Prigozhin’s rebellion.
Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations on at least three sectors of the front.
Russian forces’ ability to conduct offensive and defensive operations in Ukraine does not appear to have been substantially impacted by Wagner’s June 23-24 armed rebellion.
Ukrainian Main Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) Head Kyrylo Budanov warned on June 23 that Russia has finished preparations for an attack on the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant.
A Russian sabotage and reconnaissance group attempted to cross the international border into Sumy Oblast.
Russian forces continued limited ground attacks near Svatove, Bakhmut, and along the Avdiivka-Donetsk City line.
Russian and Ukrainian forces conducted limited ground attacks in western Donetsk and western Zaporizhia oblasts.
Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces maintain positions near the Antonivskyi Bridge in Kherson Oblast.
Ukrainian officials continue to report that Russia relies on sanctions evasion schemes to acquire foreign components for weapons production.
Russian occupation authorities continue to weaponize policy regarding children to consolidate social and administrative control of occupied areas.
Posted on 6/25/23 at 7:50 pm to notiger1997
If he stays true to his type, he'll never respond to my question.
Posted on 6/25/23 at 8:19 pm to Chromdome35
Konstantin on yesterday's events. Nearly two hours but a lot of interesting information. He's giving details I haven't heard anywhere else. LINK
This post was edited on 6/25/23 at 8:31 pm
Posted on 6/25/23 at 8:27 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
A video is circulating on Russian social networks allegedly showing two Chechen Russia's soldiers are cutting throat of a handcuffed "traitor, who supported Prigozhin and insulted our people". As I said before, the "deal" is not the end at all, and interesting time is coming.
no video in link
Posted on 6/25/23 at 8:30 pm to StormyMcMan
I wouldn't be surprised at all if one of the consequences of this war is an all out pogrom against the Chechens. They've been a thorn in Russia's side for 30+ years.
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