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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 6/25/23 at 3:19 pm to
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16114 posts
Posted on 6/25/23 at 3:19 pm to
The Army has to pay to sell them for scrap.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21029 posts
Posted on 6/25/23 at 3:25 pm to
Meduza (independent Russian media, operating from Latvia since the war) has a take that Prigozhin lost yesterday.

quote:

According to one of Meduza’s sources close to the Kremlin, the Russian authorities began negotiations with Prigozhin on the evening of June 23, when he announced the start of his “march of justice.”

The military leadership, the Kremlin’s employees, and government officials attempted to negotiate with Prigozhin — though it was challenging to know exactly what should even be negotiated, given his actions.

Prigozhin’s demands were vague and strange. He wanted Shoigu gone, autonomy over Wagner’s affairs, and more funding. After an armed rebellion, however, there was no longer a place in the system [for Prigozhin.] In any case, he would end up worse off, even if they guaranteed that he’d be safe and [that Wagner Group] would be preserved in some capacity. He didn’t want to lose anything.
quote:

According to Meduza’s sources close to the Kremlin, by mid-day on June 24, Prigozhin attempted to contact the Kremlin himself. He reportedly even “tried to call Putin, but the president didn’t want to speak with him.”

Meduza’s sources believe that Prigozhin probably realized that “he’d gone too far” and “prospects for his column to continue to advance were dim.” At that point, his fighters were already approaching the Oka River, where the Russian army and the National Guard had set up their first line of defense. Despite Prigozhin’s claims that “half the army” was ready to join him, Wagner received no additional support from soldiers in the first hours of the uprising.

The Kremlin most likely realized that Prigozhin’s calculations had changed, and then decided to avoid a “bloody confrontation” with Wagner. The final round of negotiations reportedly included the Kremlin’s chief of staff Anton Vaino, the secretary of Russia’s Security Council Nikolai Patrushev, and the Russian ambassador to Belarus Boris Gryzlov — while Lukashenko took the lead role. According to one source close to the Kremlin, Prigozhin insisted that negotiations include top officials. Given Putin’s reluctance to engage with Prigozhin, negotiators were left with few options.

“Prigozhin needed a trusted third party to exit and save face. That’s where Lukashenko came in. He enjoys publicity — that’s why he agreed,” said Meduza’s source. It clearly benefits Lukashenko, who knows how to benefit from the publicity of becoming the one “saving Russia from bloodshed, or worse — a potential civil war,” said the source.

Meduza’s sources add that Prigozhin ultimately ended up losing out from the rebellion. “He’s been expelled from Russia. The president won’t forgive this,” one source explained. While the exact details of Prigozhin’s future still have to be worked out, he “won’t have the same kind of influences and resources as he did before.” There may also be changes to personnel in the Russia’s defense ministry, “though this would be due to the ministry’s internal issues, rather than Prigozhin’s demands.”
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21029 posts
Posted on 6/25/23 at 3:43 pm to
I agree with this from Rob Lee:
quote:

Hard to predict what all of the long-term effects of Prigozhin's mutiny will be, but I think the success or failure of Ukraine's counteroffensive could be a very significant factor. If the Russian military holds, I think it will bolster Shoigu and Gerasimov's position.

If Ukraine achieves significant gains and the Russian military performs poorly, it could strengthen Prigozhin's position (Wagner would be more vital), and exacerbate internal tensions.

I think this weekend's events makes Ukraine's counteroffensive even more significant, because it could have even an greater effect on Russian politics and domestic affairs.


If Ukraine is able to succeed in its offensive, it could eventually lay the groundwork for Prigozhin to have another go at a coup.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21029 posts
Posted on 6/25/23 at 4:14 pm to
Here's footage of a Russian BTR firing at Ukrainian positions and evacuating a platoon (with one clearly wounded) on the left bank of the Dnipro near the old Antinovsky bridge.

It clearly shows that the reports about Ukraine having re-established a "beachhead" are correct. The question remains whether Ukraine can expand this at all. To do so would require a significantly larger force to attempt to take Oleshky.

LINK
Posted by OutsideObserver
Oceania.
Member since Dec 2022
784 posts
Posted on 6/25/23 at 4:23 pm to
Saw this starting to be reported yesterday but with the Wagner thing and the lack of harder evidence was waiting to see how it developed (if at all). War translated has the same video as well as what is claimed to be a Russian Telegram account talking about the situation.

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1673072580104798213 - Video

quote:

Footage from the "Russian-controlled" left bank of the Dnieper river at the Antonovsky Bridge, shows a Russian BTR-82A firing and moving to pick up evacuating Russian soldiers from fire by Ukrainian forces.

Earlier, Russian sources stated that Ukrainians gained a foothold at the Antonovsky Bridge with a group that is now approaching 100 fighters, forcing defending Russians to fall back.

Dva Mayora:
"Antonovsky bridge, our (left) bank of the Dnieper. Kherson region

The enemy holds a small foothold on our bank for at least three days. The units of the Russian Armed Forces withdrew from the area, as the constant action of enemy artillery and SOF created a threat of encirclement of our forces. They retreated with combat, neighbouring units came to the rescue. As a result of the fighting, the Russian Armed Forces suffered losses."

Dva Mayora mentions that the group is continuously supplied with materiel and its size is increasing. High-speed boats are hard to intercept. EW equipment prevents Russian FPV drones from striking.

Dva Mayora: https://t.me/dva_majors/19371


quote:

A more recent update is now convincingly requesting air support to assist in destroying the group. It appears as if a Telegram channel is the only way to do it as the situation is deteriorating rapidly.

https://t.me/dva_majors/19388


Interesting information regarding the communication difficulties, I wonder if Ukraine caused this or were at least aware of the situation and are exploiting it.

Edit: Fixed link and further comment
This post was edited on 6/25/23 at 4:28 pm
Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
4156 posts
Posted on 6/25/23 at 4:27 pm to
Video on twitter I won’t post of Russian paratroopers executing other Russian soldiers who supported the coup attemp that didn’t happen
This post was edited on 6/25/23 at 4:31 pm
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16114 posts
Posted on 6/25/23 at 4:30 pm to
quote:

It clearly shows that the reports about Ukraine having re-established a "beachhead" are correct. The question remains whether Ukraine can expand this at all. To do so would require a significantly larger force to attempt to take Oleshky.


Portable sections like those which crossed Escambia Bay to replace I-10 sections post Hurricane Ivan, could hold 40 ton loads.
Posted by Lakeboy7
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2011
28324 posts
Posted on 6/25/23 at 4:35 pm to
quote:

Russian paratroopers executing other Russian soldiers who supported the coup attemp that didn’t happen



Yeah, gonna be a lot of that. But how Russian is that to execute the only troops you have that are worth a shite.
Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
4691 posts
Posted on 6/25/23 at 4:36 pm to
quote:

Video on twitter I won’t post of Russian paratroopers executing other Russian soldiers who supported the coup attemp that didn’t happen


If legit and shown to happen after the "truce" i wouldn't be shocked if Wagner goes back for round 2 with or without Prigozhin
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16114 posts
Posted on 6/25/23 at 4:37 pm to
quote:

Yeah, gonna be a lot of that. But how Russian is that to execute the only troops you have that are worth a shite.


There is nothing more Russian than this.
Posted by notiger1997
Metairie
Member since May 2009
61743 posts
Posted on 6/25/23 at 4:39 pm to
I’m assuming Russia doesn’t have many heavy weapons in this area? No mortar and helicopter resources?
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42751 posts
Posted on 6/25/23 at 4:42 pm to
Wd talked about this yesterday. Stuff like this and Wagner out if Ukraine provide the Ukes with an opportunity.

The question is, will they use all this to their advantage?

With the coup over already, it’s time to act.
Posted by OutsideObserver
Oceania.
Member since Dec 2022
784 posts
Posted on 6/25/23 at 5:06 pm to
This is a very good thread about how to look at the events over the past few days concerning Wagner and Russia.

https://twitter.com/rajan_menon_/status/1672778794866966528

quote:

1/11 Thoughts following the Prigozhin drama: A British acquaintance wrote to ask what I made of it—now that the dust has settled, or seems to have. My response: Begin by considering what occurred in the abstract—i.e., by leaving out all proper names.


2/ There’s a country run by a leader who seeks to project strength and control at every turn. Suddenly, a warlord, who owes everything to the leader’s patronage, drives into one of its major southern cities unopposed, accompanied by heavily-armed fighters.


3/ He and his retinue take control of that city’s streets and then travel northward, up a major highway toward the country’s capital, through another city and into a nearby province. Highways to the capital are closed in part. The city goes into high alert


4/ To stop the armed revolt, the all-powerful leader calls in a second warlord, against whose people he once waged a brutal war. All the while, the country’s much-vaunted army and fearsome security services seem to be at sea.


5/ The strongman denounces the offending warlord for fomenting rebellion, even revolution, against the state and denounces him as a traitor. The county’s intelligence service has by then already formally charges the rebel with treason.


6/ The drama ends when the president of a neighboring country, a supplicant to the strongman, parachutes in and negotiates a deal that defuses the crisis.

7/ That crisis, mind you, led the governor of the province in which the southern city is located to order its residents to stay indoors for safety. And it reportedly prompted panic buying in the country’s capital and the escape of some of its fat cats in their private jets.

8/ In the end, the warlord, having denounced system that made him fabulously wealthy as corrupt, and a major war it is waging as fraudulent, receives, per the terms of the deal, an amnesty and exile in the mediating president’s country. The treason charge? Magically rescinded.

9/ The strongman’s spinmeisters paint the denouement of this drama as an example of his calm and skill. But that’s rather like putting lipstick on a pig: The damage done to his invincible aura is undeniable.

10/ What remains unclear is how serious the damage will prove to be and what, if any, political consequences will flow from it. Now, forget for a moment that all of this happened in Russia recently, over the course of a couple of days.

11/ Then ask yourself if, by any reasonable standard, any strongman’s performance during such a crisis would merit accolades—or whether the fact that it was even allowed to occur would tarnish his image, no matter what his public relations crew will proclaim, far and wide.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16114 posts
Posted on 6/25/23 at 5:14 pm to
LINK

quote:

russia has a BIG problem...
a few russian units switched sides and joined wagner in this little game.. here they are.

1) Military unit 11659: Command of the 22nd Separate Guards Special Purpose Brigade (RosGvardia),
Commandant Company, 2nd Special Communications Detachment. 2)
411th Detachment of the 22nd Separate Guards Special Purpose Brigade, Stepnoy village, Rostov-on-Don. 3) Practically the entire 108th Bataysk GRU Spetsnaz Detachment with all of their Typhoon military vehicles. 4) Unit 14254: 387th Object "C" of the 12th Main Defence Ministry Directorate (nuclear) in the military town of Voronezh-45. Switched sides/surrendered without any resistance. 5) Border guards at Bugaevka checkpoint in Voronezh. 6) Entire FSB Federal Border Service of the regional command center for Voronezh region of the Central Military District. 7) FSB Border Service at Chertkovo customs & border checkpoint. 8) Unit 7437: RosGvardia Spetsnaz motorized regiment. 9) Unit 3677: RosGvardia Separate Battalion in Voronezh. 10) Unit 63453: Separate Tank Brigade in Boguchar, Voronezh (MoD)
Posted by Lakeboy7
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2011
28324 posts
Posted on 6/25/23 at 5:32 pm to
quote:

russia has a BIG problem...
a few russian units switched sides and joined wagner in this little game.. here they are.

1) Military unit 11659: Command of the 22nd Separate Guards Special Purpose Brigade (RosGvardia),
Commandant Company, 2nd Special Communications Detachment. 2)
411th Detachment of the 22nd Separate Guards Special Purpose Brigade, Stepnoy village, Rostov-on-Don. 3) Practically the entire 108th Bataysk GRU Spetsnaz Detachment with all of their Typhoon military vehicles. 4) Unit 14254: 387th Object "C" of the 12th Main Defence Ministry Directorate (nuclear) in the military town of Voronezh-45. Switched sides/surrendered without any resistance. 5) Border guards at Bugaevka checkpoint in Voronezh. 6) Entire FSB Federal Border Service of the regional command center for Voronezh region of the Central Military District. 7) FSB Border Service at Chertkovo customs & border checkpoint. 8) Unit 7437: RosGvardia Spetsnaz motorized regiment. 9) Unit 3677: RosGvardia Separate Battalion in Voronezh. 10) Unit 63453: Separate Tank Brigade in Boguchar, Voronezh (MoD)


Tip of the iceberg.

Wagner knew the aircraft number, name of pilot(s) and from what base (direction) they were coming from. To get that type of detail in real time means people in high places were helping them. Like FSB types.
Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
4156 posts
Posted on 6/25/23 at 5:46 pm to
quote:

To get that type of detail in real time means people in high places were helping them. Like FSB types.


Heh.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21029 posts
Posted on 6/25/23 at 5:53 pm to
Map of the Left Bank of the Dnipro which also shows the location of today's video.


Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21029 posts
Posted on 6/25/23 at 6:06 pm to
I think that this is a very useful chart. Ukraine had a horrible 1st day of the offensive, with the Bradleys, Leopards, etc. destroyed.

But Ukraine had to give it a go: just take your newly trained brigades and see how well they can execute combined arms attack, and how well the Russians can defend. But the losses were absolutely unsustainable.

So, Ukraine switched to working much more slowly and methodically.

LINK

quote:

Zaporizhzhia counter-offensive equipment loss numbers as of 25 June 2023.

In summary: 125 UA losses vs. 107 RU losses



Note that, in the last six days, there are 42 confirmed Russian losses and only 20 Ukrainian losses, which is a dramatic shift from the first few days of the offensive.

Of course, the offensive is also, at present, taking very little territory from the Russians.
Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
4156 posts
Posted on 6/25/23 at 6:12 pm to
Worth noting the destroyed/repairable ratio
This post was edited on 6/25/23 at 6:12 pm
Posted by LegendInMyMind
Member since Apr 2019
75735 posts
Posted on 6/25/23 at 6:17 pm to
quote:

I'm not saying I know for sure that Vladimir has a pure heart... I'm just saying it's not impossible.

There's nothing pure about an old Communist, friend.
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