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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 2/20/23 at 9:34 am to
Posted by klrstix
Shreveport, LA
Member since Oct 2006
3571 posts
Posted on 2/20/23 at 9:34 am to
quote:

Given the recent questions of China providing lethal aid to Russia, this is an interesting play.


This makes no sense to me for China... I am certain China does exactly what they think is in their best interest but I don't really see what that is in this case given the problems it would create for them ..

I would be interested to hear what others think on this..
Posted by Burhead
Member since Dec 2014
2100 posts
Posted on 2/20/23 at 9:39 am to
quote:

This makes no sense to me for China... I am certain China does exactly what they think is in their best interest but I don't really see what that is in this case given the problems it would create for them ..

I would be interested to hear what others think on this..



My simple guess is they want to see how their weapons do in live action?
Posted by AU86
Member since Aug 2009
26257 posts
Posted on 2/20/23 at 9:40 am to
I think China may be in the process of offering up a "peace plan" that calls for no weapons to be sent to Ukraine. If the west says no, they can possibly say, then in that case, we can send weapons to Russia.

Is China willing to risk sanctions on their economy? This maybe coming down to nut cutting time.
Posted by rhar61
Member since Nov 2022
5109 posts
Posted on 2/20/23 at 9:41 am to
quote:

This makes no sense to me for China... I am certain China does exactly what they think is in their best interest but I don't really see what that is in this case given the problems it would create for them ..

I would be interested to hear what others think on this..



My simple guess is they see we have a cipher as president so they are doing it because they can without worrying about repercussions.
Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
4669 posts
Posted on 2/20/23 at 9:42 am to
quote:

someone repost the poli boards reaction to how obama handled russias annexation of crimea


LINK
Posted by lowspark12
nashville, tn
Member since Aug 2009
22581 posts
Posted on 2/20/23 at 9:43 am to
Sure bud, it’s all optics.

Biden could cure breast cancer tomorrow and folks would bitch “what about the men?!”
This post was edited on 2/20/23 at 9:43 am
Posted by WestCoastAg
Member since Oct 2012
150130 posts
Posted on 2/20/23 at 9:43 am to
Posted by Burhead
Member since Dec 2014
2100 posts
Posted on 2/20/23 at 9:47 am to
quote:

@Faytuks US will send Ukraine another $460 million in military equipment, including HIMARS, air surveillance radars, Javelin anti-armor systems, Bradley Infantry Fire Support Team vehicles and night vision devices, according to the Pentagon - Bloomberg
Posted by Obtuse1
Westside Bodymore Yo
Member since Sep 2016
30450 posts
Posted on 2/20/23 at 9:48 am to
We or at least I keep waiting for the Russian offensive to start, I am beginning to believe it has been going on for weeks and this is just their best effort.

Some may have seen the video of the Russian attacking the trenches and failing but the soldier himself tells a tale.



This is not your average conscript. The soldier is carrying an AK-74M with the KM-AK Obves modernization kit. This along with other visual indicators suggests this soldier is from an "elite" paratrooper or spetsnaz unit.



Link to Russian information about the weapon:

Topwar.ru


Based on the pushes in the last few weeks and elite soldiers near trench warfare I think the offensive is fully on. I am not suggesting it might not intensify I think at least I have been missing the lead recently.

Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 2/20/23 at 9:49 am to
quote:

This makes no sense to me for China... I am certain China does exactly what they think is in their best interest but I don't really see what that is in this case given the problems it would create for them ..

I would be interested to hear what others think on this..


I’m not sure either, but my guess is:

1. It also benefits their long term goals for this conflict to continue:

discounted Russian oil
increased influence over Russia and its natural resources that they desperately need
continues to deplete western munitions and equipment stock

2. They’d like to see their own tech in action, but this is likely only a benefit if they were to send newer equipment vs just sending artillery etc that was Russian produced anyway.

3. Something unknown because it’s information we do not have related to either this war or their view of the future in potential expansion of this war. They’re also cozy with Iran who’s potentially on the doorstep of war with Israel. If that takes place, not only is the calculus for us changed but it also means Iranian support for Russia likely stops as they focus on their own war. China could be looking to fill that vacuum.
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 2/20/23 at 9:50 am to
quote:

I think China may be in the process of offering up a "peace plan" that calls for no weapons to be sent to Ukraine. If the west says no, they can possibly say, then in that case, we can send weapons to Russia.

Is China willing to risk sanctions on their economy? This maybe coming down to nut cutting time.


Very well could be. I think their peace talk is disingenuous and potentially being used as their excuse to enter the fray.
Posted by olemissfan26
MS
Member since Apr 2012
6965 posts
Posted on 2/20/23 at 9:53 am to
quote:

Biden could cure breast cancer tomorrow and folks would bitch “what about the men?!”


Lol he could but that would help everyday Americans so he’s not interested.
Posted by DownshiftAndFloorIt
Here
Member since Jan 2011
72085 posts
Posted on 2/20/23 at 9:55 am to
Whats going on there

Is the Russian Leroy jenkins-ing a Ukraine trench?
Posted by REG861
Ocelot, Iowa
Member since Oct 2011
38160 posts
Posted on 2/20/23 at 9:57 am to
quote:

quote:
This makes no sense to me for China... I am certain China does exactly what they think is in their best interest but I don't really see what that is in this case given the problems it would create for them ..

I would be interested to hear what others think on this..


My simple guess is they see we have a cipher as president so they are doing it because they can without worrying about repercussions.




We need a strong leader like Xi.
Posted by Obtuse1
Westside Bodymore Yo
Member since Sep 2016
30450 posts
Posted on 2/20/23 at 9:58 am to
quote:

My simple guess is they see we have a cipher as president so they are doing it because they can without worrying about repercussions.


This has to be logical because Russia is seeing zero consequences. If anything China is likely looking at the reaction to Russia from the West and having second thoughts about Taiwan et al. The sanctions that are so far merely a bother to a country like Russia would be a disaster for China, even if they weren't nearly as sweeping just nibbling around the edges would be brutal for China's economy.
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8165 posts
Posted on 2/20/23 at 10:00 am to
quote:

Is the Russian Leroy jenkins-ing a Ukraine trench?


The widely distributed video showed him trying to YOLO Zerg rush a Ukrainian trench, but a Ukrainian soldier was camping in the trench and took him out.

https://twitter.com/TheDeadDistrict/status/1626502016041189378
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
73601 posts
Posted on 2/20/23 at 10:04 am to
quote:

I look forward to the day when we are talking about Biden's presidency in the past tense. It can't come soon enough. I agree if he would show more effort/concern on domestic issues, he would have much less criticism of his Ukraine policy, but he hasn't. The poor quality and character of the Biden administration, does not change the fact that Russia deserves to get its teeth kicked in for what it has done in Ukraine.


Agree wholeheartedly with all of this.
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8165 posts
Posted on 2/20/23 at 10:17 am to
Good thread on the current status of the war (stalemate)

https://twitter.com/KofmanMichael/status/1627309427907854336

quote:

A few thoughts on the Russian winter offensive, which began 3+ weeks ago, and has so far yielded little progress for RU forces. Poor force quality, loss of junior officers, ammunition, and equipment constraints limit Russian offensive potential. Thread. 1/

The RU offensive consists of about 5-6 axes of attack focused on the Donbas. Rather than a major push along one part of the front, it is instead a series of distributed battles running north-south from Luhansk, to Bakhmut, and southern Donetsk. 2/

Russian forces are attacking at Vuhledar, Marinka, Adviivka, Bakhmut (and Bilohorivka), Kreminna -> Lyman, with attempts to advance near Kupyansk. The offensive began in the last week of January with a Russian assault on Vuhledar. 3/

The battle for Vuhledar involves two NI brigades (155th, 40th), and has not gone well for the Russian military. RU units refilled with mobilized personnel seem to have lost a fair bit of their offensive edge, but I’m not sure this is a ‘failure to learn.’ 4/

The terrain outside of Vuhledar is very open, heavily mined, and covered by UA ATGM teams. It leaves RU forces few options for an assault. I also wonder if the Russian military may be short on specialized equipment for tasks like mine clearing. 5/

At Kreminna RU VDV seems to have made some incremental gains against UA positions. Depending on how that battle plays out it may force UA to abandon the Kreminna campaign or lead to see-saw battles in the forest west of the city. 6/

There’s a growing likelihood that UA will withdraw from Bakhmut to another defensive line east of Slovyansk/Kramatorsk. The Russian military may then turn north and try to consolidate control up to the Donets river (including Bilohorivka). 7/

RU forces have not had much success at Avdiivka or Marinka. This is another area that’s seen months of fighting. The Russian offensive doesn’t look like much of an offensive because it is playing out in areas that have previously seen unsuccessful Russian attacks. 8/

At this stage it doesn’t seem that RU has employed reserves, and is likely using those units to replace casualties, or perhaps waiting for a breakthrough to exploit. That said, there’s not much evidence of a larger additional RU force in the waiting. 9/

I’ve been skeptical that there is an additional ‘spring offensive’ looming. To conduct such an operation RU would likely need a second mobilization wave, in advance, which never took place. Predictions that 500k troops would be mobilized mid-January proved incorrect. 10/

Senior US and NATO military officials have begun saying much the same in recent days. There’s a relative consensus that the Russian offensive to take the Donbas began some time ago, and its going about as expected given the state of the force. 11/

Secretary of Defense Lloyd J. Austin III and Army Gen. Mark A. Milley, chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, held a press conference following the Ukraine Defense Contact Group in Brussels.
LINK

My best guess is Moscow will wait to see what comes of this offensive before proceeding with a second mobilization wave. I would not discount anything, but right now the RU offensive looks to yield mostly incremental gains that come at the expense of equipment and ammunition. 12/

One possibility is that after UA launches an offensive in the spring, RU will then choose to mobilize in the summer, an attempt another operation later. Given UA no longer enjoys a manpower advantage, RU strategy in 2023 could be to grind away at UA manpower. 13/

Russian forces are expending artillery ammunition in this offensive which they will miss in the spring. The coming months will reveal the real situation in RU artillery ammo availability, which I expect is quite problematic, forcing them to ration. 14/

That said, Ukrainian forces may also have issues with artillery ammo and barrels. This remains a near to medium term challenge. Rosy assessments of Western ammo production potential over the long-term might not align well with UA requirements for the coming 6-12 months. 15/

UA is better served absorbing the RU attack & exhausting RU offensive potential, then taking the initiative later this spring. Having expended ammunition, better troops, and equipment it could leave RU defense overall weaker. 16/

My impression is that Surovkin, who stabilized RU lines, preferred a defensive strategy, rebuilding the force, and preferring to defend against a Ukrainian offensive in the south. Then have RU forces launch an offensive later in the summer to try and capture the Donbas. 17/

Instead, Gerasimov is exhausting the Russian armed forces with a feckless series of offensive operations, which may yield some gains, like Bakhmut, but unlikely to change the strategic picture. The second battle for the Donbas may once again leave RU forces vulnerable. 18/

A spring offensive will still prove a difficult operation for UA. Russian mil now has enough manpower & reserves to avoid a depleted frontline as in Kharkiv. Kherson is an imperfect, but probably a better guide for how a future UA offensive may unfold. 19/

Whether Western AFVs make much of a difference depends on employment and the timing of the UA offensive. Its possible, if UA waits for the force to absorb it in quantity, but I suspect this equipment will mostly serve to backfill losses from the next operation. 20/
This post was edited on 2/20/23 at 10:19 am
Posted by klrstix
Shreveport, LA
Member since Oct 2006
3571 posts
Posted on 2/20/23 at 10:26 am to
quote:

1. It also benefits their long term goals for this conflict to continue:

discounted Russian oil
increased influence over Russia and its natural resources that they desperately need
continues to deplete western munitions and equipment stock



This is what I view to be the most likely reason..
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 2/20/23 at 10:31 am to


Don’t think this HAS to be the case, but personally feel the conflict is expanding and more uninvolved nations are getting nervous. Ie: Middle East with Iran’s involvement in Ukraine with drones and what that may mean for it’s ME enemies. Israel of course is acting on Iranian interests. Iran reportedly improving nuclear enrichment. NK sending artillery and increasing their own domestic missile tests. Now the possibility of China supporting Russia is some to be determined fashion.

That said, I don’t think any of it happens simply because Zelensky told a reporter we’d be in WWIII if China aides Russia.
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