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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 1/20/23 at 7:56 am to cypher
Posted on 1/20/23 at 7:56 am to cypher
Ramstein has started. I'm really curious to see what more we see from Italy, Spain, Germany, France, Norway, etc. Germany announced the Marders a few weeks ago and France its AMX-10s, but that can't be the full extent of their commitments.
Even Portugal should simply give up it's Leopards -- it doesn't need them.
The Aussies haven't given anything since October, so they are due.
Finland just announced a €400 million package, which is larger than their previous eleven packages put together, but the Finns never say what they are giving, preferring to let the Russians find out on the battlefield.
Even Portugal should simply give up it's Leopards -- it doesn't need them.
The Aussies haven't given anything since October, so they are due.
Finland just announced a €400 million package, which is larger than their previous eleven packages put together, but the Finns never say what they are giving, preferring to let the Russians find out on the battlefield.
1
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:06 am to GOP_Tiger
This will be streamed live at 9:30 AM Central
Austin, Milley Hold Briefing on Ukraine Defense
Secretary of Defense Lloyd J. Austin III and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Army Gen. Mark A. Milley brief the news media in Germany, as defense leaders from around the world conclude a meeting on Ukraine’s defense.
DoD Live Event
Austin, Milley Hold Briefing on Ukraine Defense
Secretary of Defense Lloyd J. Austin III and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Army Gen. Mark A. Milley brief the news media in Germany, as defense leaders from around the world conclude a meeting on Ukraine’s defense.
DoD Live Event
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:12 am to StormyMcMan
quote:
The Kremlin is also very unlikely to use nuclear weapons in Ukraine and extraordinarily unlikely to use them against the West despite consistently leaning on tired nuclear escalation threats.
I have to agree with this. One thing this war has made clear is the overall poor state of training of the Russian Army. They lack the ability to conduct large-scale combined arms offensive operations in a normal environment. The use of nuclear weapons on the battlefield would only worsen this situation because the Russians would have the added complication of operating in a NBC environment. Without proper equipment and, more importantly, training, any force trying to operate in a heavily contaminated area will quickly become combat ineffective.
The only scenario where I could see the Russians resorting to nuclear or chemical weapons would be in the event of a complete collapse of their front and a deep penetration into Russia. The likelihood of that happening is virtually zero.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:27 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Aircraft are honestly one of the last things they need anyway. This is mainly a ground war and outside of dogfighting with Russian jets aircraft really aren’t needed. If this war has proven anything it’s that close air support is becoming a thing of the past.
Well that is just downright wrong. During their Kharkiv oblast offensive in September, the Ukrainians had MIGs performing wild weasel missions which allowed their Su24s (the Soviet version of the A10) and their helicopters to provide close air support. One of the things that made the Russians flee was that the Ukrainians had air support and the Russians didn’t.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:35 am to WeeWee
quote:
Well that is just downright wrong. During their Kharkiv oblast offensive in September, the Ukrainians had MIGs performing wild weasel missions which allowed their Su24s (the Soviet version of the A10) and their helicopters to provide close air support. One of the things that made the Russians flee was that the Ukrainians had air support and the Russians didn’t.
I said it’s becoming a thing of the past. Anyone can see that. If you can use surface fires just as precisely as CAS then you’d be stupid to invest in a bunch of CAS aircraft or waste you limited aircraft in a CAS role. Precision surface to surface fires are much more resposive, require much less coordination, are much easier on the logistics side and are much easier to train. There will be a time in the very near future where CAS will pretty much be reserved for SOF deep behind enemy lines out of reach of things like HIMARS, GLSDBs, Switchblades and precision mortar and artillery fire.
A jet requires a pilot that takes years and millions of dollars to train, dozens of maintainers, bomb loaders, fuelers, airports, air traffic controllers at the airports, fuel trucked or pipelined in to the airport, millions of dollars and warehouses worth of spare parts. Specailly trained JTACs to talk to the jets.
And once you get all that shite done you have to coordinate with the artillery and HIMARS guys to get them to cease or shift fires just so you don’t accidentally shoot your own plane down. CAS is going away sooner than later.
This post was edited on 1/20/23 at 8:52 am
Posted on 1/20/23 at 9:06 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
I said it’s becoming a thing of the past. Anyone can see that. If you can use surface fires just as precisely as CAS then you’d be stupid to invest in a bunch of CAS aircraft or waste you limited aircraft in a CAS role. Precision surface to surface fires are much more resposive, require much less coordination, are much easier on the logistics side and are much easier to train. There will be a time in the very near future where CAS will pretty much be reserved for SOF deep behind enemy lines out of reach of things like HIMARS, GLSDBs, Switchblades and precision mortar and artillery fire.
The day is coming but it’s not here yet. Plus artillery doesn’t have the same fear effect as a helicopter or plane firing on you. Being on the receiving end of 152 mm artillery fire is not fun (I know from personal experience when the aid station that I was assisting at in Kharkiv city got shelled) but it was nothing compared to the fear that came when a jet or helicopter dropped out of the sky and heads in your direction.
quote:
A jet requires a pilot that takes years and millions of dollars to train, dozens of maintainers, bomb loaders, fuelers, airports, air traffic controllers at the airports, fuel trucked or pipelined in to the airport, millions of dollars and warehouses worth of spare parts. Specailly trained JTACs to talk to the jets. And once you get all that shite done you have to coordinate with the artillery and HIMARS guys to get them to cease or shift fires just so you don’t accidentally shoot your own plane down. CAS is going away sooner than later.
All that is true but it doesn’t apply to the Ukrainians in this war. The Ukrainians have wild weasel capability to suppress the Russian SAMs and they don’t have the ability to use Excaliber artillery rounds yet, and they don’t have enough loitering drones to replace CAS. The Ukrainians would benefit tremendously from western fighters and attack helicopters (like the several hundred recently retired Super Cobras sitting in the boneyard) in this war.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 9:11 am to WeeWee
I hear you but switchblades, excalibar rounds, HIMARS, GLSDBs are much cheaper and easier to get to the fight. And they require a lot less training as well. Hell man, having to fly SEAD is just another added layer of complexity to CAS. We should all be transitioning to a doctrine that is light on close air support and heavy on surface fires and loitiering munitions.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 9:15 am to GeauxxxTigers23
We will just agree to disagree on your point that air power and pilots are obsolete. You’re 1000% wrong but I don’t care to argue it with you.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 9:17 am to LSUPilot07
I didn’t say air power was obsolete. I said that CAS is becoming obsolete and not really worth the cost in resources or training. Air superiority, long range bombing and airlift are still key. There’s just too much coordination and training that goes into CAS when you can get the same effects with cheaper and more responsive weapons systems.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 9:17 am to WeeWee
So the Germans acted like Germans today. What a shocker. They forgot to wipe from having Putin’s dick in their mouth.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 9:18 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
said it’s becoming a thing of the past
The key to being able to use air power is having control of the skies to "freely" fly. this means air to air supremacy and ground to air (AA) supremacy. Air defense vs air supremacy has always been a battle. Western doctrine was air power/air supremacy. russian/USSR doctrine was surround the battlefield with AA systems.
With changes coming with Un-manned warfare, you ned to ever evolve the specific stratergy and supporting equipment/technology to still keep that doctrine in plance.
Swap Ukraine with a major western power, and air power would dominate the battlefield. It wasnt long ago tht people were stating that tanks were becoming obsolete due to airpower...
Posted on 1/20/23 at 9:19 am to LSUPilot07
quote:
We will just agree to disagree on your point that air power and pilots are obsolete. You’re 1000% wrong but I don’t care to argue it with you.
The reason that trench warfare is working in Ukraine is blatantly obvious. Air superiority would eliminate trenches being effective place defend or launch attacks from, it seems to me
Posted on 1/20/23 at 9:20 am to CitizenK
quote:
It appears that the Leopards are coming but not from Germany.
Thats the compromise. No Leopards from Germany.
Poland told Germany yesterday they were giving their Leopards to Ukraine regardless of Germany's position.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 9:22 am to tigeraddict
[
This post was edited on 1/24/23 at 3:34 pm
Posted on 1/20/23 at 9:25 am to LSUPilot07
quote:
So the Germans acted like Germans today.
frick Germany. Limp dick nanny state of pussies that are so afraid of their 20th century shadow.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 9:26 am to GeauxxxTigers23
I get your point and agree, combat evolves. CAS is great when you are dealing with a low-technology adversary like the Taliban, but against a modern power not so much.
quote:
Of course we would. That’s not the point. I’m saying that there’s better and more efficient ways to support the front line troops on the ground. I’m not ignorant on this subject. I was a trained Fire Direction Chief in a mortar platoon in the USMC in combat, I also carried the Forward Observer and JFO quals. Now I am contract ISR pilot for the DOD and have worked with NATO JTACs in real world TICs with fighters and helos in the stack with me less than 2 weeks ago.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 9:29 am to Chromdome35
Russia really is resorting to WW1/WW2 infantry charges.
https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1616409933192249344
https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1616409933192249344
quote:
Another absolutely insane Russian banzai attack. This time not around Bakhmut but somewhere in Zaporizhzhia Oblast in the south. Russian troops without any armor support running in totally open field. For Ukrainian infantry and snipers just target practice. #Zaporizhzhia
Posted on 1/20/23 at 9:30 am to StormyMcMan
quote:
It appears that the armed forces of the Russian Federation have launched an offensive in the Zaporizhia direction. This was also reported by Rogov, the head of the region.
Towards Zaporizhzhia city or just an offensive in the Zaporizhzhia oblast?
Posted on 1/20/23 at 9:33 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
I’m saying that there’s better and more efficient ways to support the front line troops on the ground.
fast forward and you will see more sophisticated drones/UAVs taking part in the CAS role. will still be a form of air power, but no risk to a pilot. Drones/UAV will be part of your air supremacy tools. but there will still be certain roles that will still need piloted platforms.
What happens when drone jamming tech surpasses counter measures? if you can command a drone, it is useless. you cant jam the pilot if the piolet is in the platform. plus you will always have a time delay lag between drone and drone operator....
Posted on 1/20/23 at 9:35 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
I said that CAS is becoming obsolete and not really worth the cost in resources or training.
And its become absurd. We had a Company get in a firefight Paktia. The fire was coming from the next mountain over.
Called in a air and take a guess what was on station that day?
A B2 bomber, I shite you not. And of course we couldnt call for fire directly, had to get an AF fister to do that.
Guided ground munitions are much more effective and locally controlled, meaning the guys at the front PID it and call for fire. Much faster and effective.
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