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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 10/12/22 at 2:15 pm to OMLandshark
Posted on 10/12/22 at 2:15 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
What if the places Putin has conquered want to be a part of Russia. Why should someone in Kiev get to dictate this?
That’s quite the slippery slope.
0
Posted on 10/12/22 at 2:16 pm to doubleb
quote:
He wrongly assumed that Biden, like Obama would do nothing once he invaded. He was wrong. Biden did the opposite of what Putin thought he would do.
Oh boy, now Biden is doin things and doing them well.
Posted on 10/12/22 at 2:16 pm to WDE24
quote:
Again, why should/would Ukraine consider that?
This is irrelevant. The question is why should the United States consider this? I'm sorry to Ukrainians, but stop giving my money to this bullshite that's either going to end with Russia taking some of Ukraine or nuclear war. Those are the two most likely options at this point and in that order. Complete Russian surrender as this thread wants is way down the list of what's likely to happen.
Posted on 10/12/22 at 2:17 pm to Kentucker
I am definitely against blaming America for Russian evil, but Obama, Trump, and Biden could all have done things that would have helped prevent this.
But this war shouldn't be about scoring political points in the US, and it's fundamentally not our fault. Partisan finger-pointing is useless and off-topic.
But this war shouldn't be about scoring political points in the US, and it's fundamentally not our fault. Partisan finger-pointing is useless and off-topic.
Posted on 10/12/22 at 2:18 pm to OMLandshark
quote:Assuming arguendo this is true, you now advocate for Biden to demonstrate strength by strong arming Ukraine into accepting Russian terms of peace.
Putin started getting his ducks in a row when Afghanistan fell. Yes, Biden is partially responsible for Putin invading Ukraine because Biden is simply weak.
How do you see that playing out? Try to be thoughtful and serious in your reply.
Posted on 10/12/22 at 2:19 pm to Kentucker
quote:
want to expound upon and clarify this point or will you allow it to sink into the fathomless depths along with
I'm not OML but after Afghanistan ended the way it did I guarantee Putin felt like he could make a move without us getting involved. Obviously Putin forgot that we needed something to take the place of Afghanistan.
Posted on 10/12/22 at 2:20 pm to WDE24
quote:
How do you see that playing out? Try to be thoughtful and serious in your reply.
This administration could frick up a ham sandwich, so I'm not too optimistic about them being able to settle things. You should at least try though.
Posted on 10/12/22 at 2:20 pm to doubleb
quote:
You can’t have a free election for self determination in a war zone where refugees have left and where the conquerors remain armed and in control. It’s ludicrous to think that kind of election would be free and fair.
It’s even more ridiculous to think that any vote for movement to Russia is appropriate. By that reckoning, the South should be allowed to decide if they want to remain part of the US.
Posted on 10/12/22 at 2:22 pm to OMLandshark
quote:Way to dodge the heart of the question by simply resorting to a lame throw away attack of Biden.
This administration could frick up a ham sandwich, so I'm not too optimistic about them being able to settle things. You should at least try though.
You are advocating the administration strong arm Ukraine into accepting Russian terms and hand Russia and Putin a win, while also arguing Biden has been weak in the past and his weakness is partially to blame for this war.
How is your proposed resolution not the weakest of all available options?
This post was edited on 10/12/22 at 2:24 pm
Posted on 10/12/22 at 2:22 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
quote:He wrongly assumed that Biden, like Obama would do nothing once he invaded. He was wrong. Biden did the opposite of what Putin thought he would do. Oh boy, now Biden is doin things and doing them well.
A blind squirrel can find an scorn once in a while.
Biden was seen as Obama lite in regards to Ukraine, he wasn’t. That’s obvious to any objective person.
Maybe it’s a reaction to his Afghanistan screw up, maybe he wants to help his military friends or maybe he believed in what he is doing? I don’t know, but it’s probably the only important thing he’s done that I agree with.
Posted on 10/12/22 at 2:22 pm to WeeWee
OK but is rail traffic still crossing over the bridge? I don’t know the answer I’m legitimately asking.
Posted on 10/12/22 at 2:24 pm to SOSFAN
quote:
I'm not OML but after Afghanistan ended the way it did I guarantee Putin felt like he could make a move without us getting involved.
So would you have liked to see tougher action in response to the provocation in Afghanistan?
It seems logical that if you wanted America to be tougher then, you would welcome the tougher response now. Is that correct?
Posted on 10/12/22 at 2:24 pm to doubleb
quote:
the only important thing he’s done that I agree with.
I couldn't imagine agreeing with essentially threating Putin and sending a bunch of our money off to Ukraine to be backchanneled to the political elite and labelling all that as "good."
Posted on 10/12/22 at 2:24 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
war shouldn't be about scoring political points in the US, and it's fundamentally not our fault. Partisan finger-pointing is useless and off-topic.
It's not all America's fault but we fundamentally are part of the reason. You have to go farther back then just last year
Posted on 10/12/22 at 2:25 pm to SOSFAN
quote:
I'm not OML but after Afghanistan ended the way it did I guarantee Putin felt like he could make a move without us getting involved. Obviously Putin forgot that we needed something to take the place of Afghanistan.
You forget the long war that Russia also fought in Afghanistan. So, is it the US or Russia that needed something to take the place of Afghanistan?
Posted on 10/12/22 at 2:26 pm to TBoy
quote:
So would you have liked to see tougher action in response to the provocation in Afghanistan?
Ummmm, as we were evacuating, yeah. We should have had troops go into the city with guns blazing to get our people out of there like Britain, Germany, and France did. Instead we cowered around the Kabul airport, 13 of our troops got blown up, and left hundreds if not thousands of Americans behind enemy lines.
This post was edited on 10/12/22 at 2:28 pm
Posted on 10/12/22 at 2:26 pm to BrianKellyRespecter
quote:
OK but is rail traffic still crossing over the bridge? I don’t know the answer I’m legitimately asking.
You previously stated that it had. We have only seen statements but no one seems to provide evidence that it has
Posted on 10/12/22 at 2:27 pm to BrianKellyRespecter
quote:It doesn't look like it. They only removed the last of the damaged cars a day or two ago and every picture shows maintenance cars on the "good" track.
OK but is rail traffic still crossing over the bridge? I don’t know the answer I’m legitimately asking.
Posted on 10/12/22 at 2:28 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
You are advocating the administration strong arm Ukraine into accepting Russian terms and hand Russia and Putin a win, while also arguing Biden has been weak in the past and his weakness is partially to blame for this war. How is your proposed resolution not the weakest of all available options?
Don’t run from it. Answer it.
Posted on 10/12/22 at 2:30 pm to CitizenK
quote:
Ukraine continues to perform mop up inside areas taken in Kherson and Luhansk. Large land grabs does take time to get rid of the vermin abandoned by the orcs
Very much expected on the heels of a Thunder Run*. Thunder Runs differ from Blitzkrieg in they are expected to outrun their logistics and have a limited range before they have to stop and consolidate. In Iraq in 1991 is was closer to Blitzkrieg stopping mainly because of the optics of continuing the slaughter and partly because while the logistics had been excellent they had already gone farther and faster than designed so it had to slow or stop sometime. 2003 was more of a prototypical Thunder Run and the troops that "took" Baghdad were actually extremely vulnerable for a bit.
*I posted some info on Thunder Runs a few pages back both regarding this war and also the US doctrine around it use.
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