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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 9/11/22 at 7:30 am to
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5647 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 7:30 am to
Moscow Officials Urge Putin to GTFO: ‘Everything Went Wrong’

More and more Russian officials are urging Vladimir Putin to get the hell out of the Kremlin as Moscow suffered another series of humiliating defeats in Ukraine this weekend.

Just one day after several municipal deputies in Putin’s hometown of St. Petersburg called on the State Duma to try the Russian leader for treason, their colleagues in Moscow joined in and demanded he step down because his views are “hopelessly outdated.”

The open letter to Putin from municipal deputies in the Russian capital’s Lomonosovsky district started out by seemingly trying to let him down gently, telling him he had “good reforms” in his first term and part of his second.

But then, “everything went wrong,” the deputies said.

“The rhetoric that you and your subordinates use has been riddled with intolerance and aggression for a long time, which in the end effectively threw our country back into the Cold War era. Russia has again begun to be feared and hated, we are once again threatening the whole world with nuclear weapons,” the letter read.

“We ask you to relieve yourself of your post due to the fact that your views and your governance model are hopelessly outdated and hinder the development of Russia and its human potential,” the deputies said in closing.

Yahoo News
Posted by Athanatos
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
8192 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 7:34 am to


This made me laugh considering some comments in this thread
Posted by TBoy
Kalamazoo
Member since Dec 2007
28563 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 7:39 am to
With the MOD basically declaring a victorious regrouping in Ukraine, and other rather prominent voices decrying the humiliating defeat, it must be a difficult time for the average Russian to know what to say even in casual conversation. I guess they are probably shifting into the old Soviet mode of saying nothing.

Pretty soon we will all find out what messaging the propagandists have approved when our Russian supporters reappear.
Posted by TacoNash
Member since Mar 2020
715 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 7:42 am to
quote:

Pretty soon we will all find out what messaging the propagandists have approved when our Russian supporters reappear


We saw it a little bit yesterday with the “Izyum isn’t important anyways” and “the logistics corridor has shifted east anyways”
This post was edited on 9/11/22 at 7:43 am
Posted by Lakeboy7
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2011
28324 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 7:46 am to
quote:

“the logistics corridor has shifted east anyways”



Why yes it has, lots of things moving east
Posted by Bunk Moreland
Member since Dec 2010
68342 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 7:50 am to
I'll tell you this. The alt commentariat is totally fractured right now for the first time during this conflict. About half are digging in, saying this is a trap or strategic retreat, and the other half are saying it's a loss or complete disaster.
This post was edited on 9/11/22 at 8:24 am
Posted by Lakeboy7
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2011
28324 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 7:52 am to
quote:

strategic retreat,


quote:

it's a disaster.


Its a strategic disaster
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 8:09 am to


What a collapse looks like for when Putin’s Peasants come out of hiding
Posted by TigerDoc
Texas
Member since Apr 2004
11847 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 8:15 am to
Some cracks appearing in the narrative of even the staunchest of Kremlin media (from Mark Galeotti):

quote:

Rossiiskaya Gazeta, the Kremlin's 'newspaper of record,' is as stodgy as you might expect, but in light of the extraordinary Ukrainian successes in the past few days, it's instructive to see what it's telling Russians today (and what it's not).

First, and most obvious, there's not even a hint of the Ukrainians' advance from Kharkov deep into Russian-held territory. Quite the opposite, instead there are tallies, drawn directly from MOD briefings, of alleged enemy losses (4000 KIA since 6 Sept).

At the same time, again picking up a recent theme of Kremlin propaganda, much talk of 'foreign mercenaries' fighting on Kyiv's side, although of course they too are, Russians are told, being hammered, But even so, the propagandists can't help but trip themselves up. The account of how a Mi-35 gunship crew allegedly thwarted a Ukrainian river crossing might be comforting to the paper's readers, assuming they don't look at a map, because by placing the action at Sen'kove, on the Oskil River (which seems to have been taken already), it is admitting just how deeply the Ukrainians have already gone. Presumably, they are relying on readers imbibing the triumphalist tone and not digging into the detail.

But this illustrates some wider issues.

1) The Kremlin seems stunned, and has not yet come up with a plan as to how to try and spin this, so to a large extent the media are ignoring the bad news until they get a directive.

No one wants to show initiative lest they get it wrong. (Which is, incidentally, the same Soviet-style defensive thinking that is bedevilling the military, especially disastrous in a time of rapid and unpredictable change)

2) The Kremlin is happy to lie, but can't just ignore realities, and so is really struggling to create any positive narratives on issues where some basic fact-checking is possible.

This is the kind of dilemma we saw in Chechnya (x2) and the Soviet war in Afghanistan, and tends to be a sign that the state's control over the narrative is cracking. It is not so much IMO that Russians up to now have necessarily *believed* the official line so much as that they have had no reason to both *disbelieving* it as that is dangerous both politically and also morally.

I remember one parent of a vet from Afghanistan I interviewed for my PhD. She said "I didn't want to believe what people were saying about the war, because if I did, then I would either have to act or be a part of it." This desire to avoid the truth as long as possible is a very human one, alas, but especially prevalent in authoritarian regimes. But in due course - and esp as the official narrative becomes less and less credible - it does break over time.

The evening TV 'shock jocks' will still rant, but they matter less than many believe. When even core state propagandists like RG are at a loss, despite their closeness to the administration, then this is a sign of political pressure, maybe even crisis.
This post was edited on 9/11/22 at 8:54 am
Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
4669 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 8:20 am to
quote:

quote:
Pretty soon we will all find out what messaging the propagandists have approved when our Russian supporters reappear


We saw it a little bit yesterday with the “Izyum isn’t important anyways” and “the logistics corridor has shifted east anyways”


I decided to look at the poli board for insight

Ranges from this is all BS and the Ukraine counteroffensive isn't actually happening to they are truly just regrouping to its actually the US doing it (excluding comments that we are just money laundering)

quote:

You will believe anything


quote:

Putin is whipping that arse nitwit


quote:

Where's the collapsed part? Retreating then advancing has been going on throughout this war


quote:

The old “faux retreat”. Oldest trick in the book.


quote:

They aren’t retreating, they’re advancing to the rear to previously prepared positions.


quote:

Do you believe ukranian army is doing any of this?

It's the CIA and US special ops doing it.


quote:

And the ghost of Kiev just flew over my house. You gullible fricking retard.


And that was just the first 2 pages
Posted by Palmetto98
Where the stars are big and bright
Member since Nov 2021
2145 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 8:24 am to
Ghost of Kiev disagrees
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8165 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 8:40 am to
The poli board is the one place you will find more stupid, uninformed commentary on the war than what the Putin bots drop in this thread. The cognitive dissonance on display there in the War threads is staggering.
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8165 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 8:42 am to
I saw video last night that was supposedly from Izium with a vast amount of Russian equipment sitting in staging areas. It looks like Ukraine will be able to field a couple more major units with the war spoils they have taken this week.
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8165 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 8:51 am to
Coincidence?
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45554 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 8:57 am to
quote:

Lavrov: "#Russia does not refuse negotiations with #Ukraine, but the longer the process is postponed, the more difficult it will be to agree on peace." Earlier, Peskov said that negotiations would only take place if the #Kremlin's conditions were met.
LINK

The Kremlin is changing its tune. It’s now open to peace talks. Damn, makes one wonder just how bad the Russian military collapse is.
Posted by TigerDoc
Texas
Member since Apr 2004
11847 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 8:58 am to
Truly a shocker. There's also the profile of a Shiba Inu face there in the top salient.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15688 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 9:00 am to
quote:

I saw video last night that was supposedly from Izium with a vast amount of Russian equipment sitting in staging areas. It looks like Ukraine will be able to field a couple more major units with the war spoils they have taken this week.


I cannot find it now but there was video claiming a depot was captured when in fact it is video of a maintenance depot in Crimea. The caution came from either NAFO or Daan Niederlander on Twitter, or one like it.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15688 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 9:00 am to
Toothless Mexican guy laughing about Russia's military.

LINK
This post was edited on 9/11/22 at 9:58 am
Posted by TigerDoc
Texas
Member since Apr 2004
11847 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 9:01 am to
I haven't seen the original sourcing, but I'm seeing this map as being attributed to the Russian MoD and if it's legit, they're acknowledging being almost entirely out of Kharkiv Oblast.

This post was edited on 9/11/22 at 9:03 am
Posted by TigerDoc
Texas
Member since Apr 2004
11847 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 9:02 am to
Yes, the video I had seen was taken down. Elliot Higgins of Bellingcat also attributed it to a Crimea, not the east.
This post was edited on 9/11/22 at 9:08 am
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