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Posted on 1/27/20 at 10:08 am to finfeathersport
Don’t believe videos/info not from a verified source.
The holding pattern isn’t that odd. He was flying VFR and asking to enter the Burbank airspace via a special VFR clearance, which means even though they were operating under IFR (instruments instead of visual), he could maintain visual separation as he transitioned through the airspace.
The controller told him to remain outside of his airspace while he cleared the protected (IFR) traffic, hence the holding pattern. Once he cleared him in, he transitioned all the way through Burbank and Van Nuys. After he left their airspace - and the special VFR clearance - is when something went wrong, whether mechanical, weather, or some combination
The holding pattern isn’t that odd. He was flying VFR and asking to enter the Burbank airspace via a special VFR clearance, which means even though they were operating under IFR (instruments instead of visual), he could maintain visual separation as he transitioned through the airspace.
The controller told him to remain outside of his airspace while he cleared the protected (IFR) traffic, hence the holding pattern. Once he cleared him in, he transitioned all the way through Burbank and Van Nuys. After he left their airspace - and the special VFR clearance - is when something went wrong, whether mechanical, weather, or some combination
Posted on 1/27/20 at 10:09 am to upgrayedd
Had a friend who died hitting a mountain when weather closed in. Sometimes you're looking so hard for holes the fly through, or other traffic that you miss a lot of the terrain in your way.
Posted on 1/27/20 at 10:09 am to sec13rowBBseat28
fog definitely was the contributing factor and pilot lost orientation
if windy as well that would have not been helpful in trying to get out of it
I've driven in CA fog in Fresno and I could barely see a car length in front of me, had no idea where the stoplights were trying to get back to airport one morning
Not to be insensitive, Would it have been that much of an inconvenience to drive the hour and a half on a Sunday without much traffic for a travel ball game? All about choices in life and I can tell you those small planes and helicopters are not safe in those kinds of conditions. Similar to what likely happened in the Carly McCord crash as well due to fog.
if windy as well that would have not been helpful in trying to get out of it
I've driven in CA fog in Fresno and I could barely see a car length in front of me, had no idea where the stoplights were trying to get back to airport one morning
Not to be insensitive, Would it have been that much of an inconvenience to drive the hour and a half on a Sunday without much traffic for a travel ball game? All about choices in life and I can tell you those small planes and helicopters are not safe in those kinds of conditions. Similar to what likely happened in the Carly McCord crash as well due to fog.
This post was edited on 1/27/20 at 10:10 am
Posted on 1/27/20 at 10:09 am to windshieldman
quote:Its a helicopter, by alot
You're gonna get all the idiots coming out telling you about driving vs helicopter and what's more dangerous
Helicopters arent really that safe at all. 84x more likely to die traveling by Heli than a car
Private aviation in general is more dangerous than driving. Its only commercial aviation that is safer than driving
Posted on 1/27/20 at 10:10 am to lsupride87
One or two crashes and probably many more scares in Hawaii helicopters all the time
Posted on 1/27/20 at 10:10 am to Klark Kent
quote:
i'm sure this is an extremely ignorant question. but if the weather was that bad why take off? why not land and wait it out? instead of circling and taking some weird flight path?
Because his daughter had a basketball practice/game /tournament . I'm not saying, Kobe pushed the pilot to fly but could be a possibility.
Many agencies will not lift off in those conditions.
Posted on 1/27/20 at 10:11 am to lsupride87
quote:
84x more likely to die traveling by Heli than a car
quote:do you know what the difference is between the 2? What is your idea of what commercial aviation is?
Private aviation in general is more dangerous than driving. Its only commercial aviation that is safer than driving
Posted on 1/27/20 at 10:12 am to MWP
quote:
I fly in helicopters all the time for pipeline work and actually landed one in a field next to a Bucee's so an inspector could go take a shite
If you have to go in a public place, Buc-ee's is about as good as it gets.
Posted on 1/27/20 at 10:13 am to Big Block Stingray
quote:
Many agencies will not lift off in those conditions.
Locally even experienced commercial operations will not fly in questionable weather. Except for the larger airlines like Alaska.
Posted on 1/27/20 at 10:14 am to lsupride87
quote:
84x more likely to die traveling by Heli than a car
Link?
Posted on 1/27/20 at 10:14 am to MWP
quote:
I fly in helicopters all the time for pipeline work and actually landed one in a field next to a Bucee's so an inspector could go take a shite. It's probably not that easy to do in LA but still anything is better than crashing.
Lots of power lines etc in L.A.
Posted on 1/27/20 at 10:15 am to Bedhog
quote:
Bedhog
quote:
Still, it’s possible to do a little speculation with the data that are available. Between 2005 and 2009, there was an annual average of 1.44 fatalities (PDF) per 100,000 flying hours in nonmilitary helicopters. Over the same period, there were 13.2 traffic fatalities per 100,000 population in the United States annually. Since the average American spends around 780 hours per year (PDF) in the car, that means the fatality rate per 100,000 hours of driving time is just 0.017. Based on hours alone, helicopters are 85 times more dangerous than driving.
85 times more dangerous based on hours
LINK
27 times more dangerous based on miles
quote:
Helicopters cover a lot more ground in an hour than a driver on the New Jersey Turnpike, so it might be better to come at the question from another angle. There are approximately 0.8 deaths on the interstate highway system for every 100 million miles traveled. There have been a fair number of studies on the average speed on the interstate system with varying results, but the average is probably somewhere around 68 miles per hour, give or take a few mph. That means it took drivers approximately 1.47 million hours to travel those 100 million miles, yielding a fatality rate of 0.054 per 100,000 hours in the car. By this measure, helicopter flying is just 27 times more dangerous than driving.
This post was edited on 1/27/20 at 10:17 am
Posted on 1/27/20 at 10:15 am to Street Hawk
quote:
We know the pilot contacted the control tower at Burbank Airport around 9:30 AM PT, and the tower was aware the pilot had been circling for about 15 minutes. The pilot eventually headed north along the 118 freeway before turning to the west, and started following above the 101 freeway around Woodland Hills, CA.
I listened to the communications.
He was in a holding pattern as directed by the air traffic control to allow the air space to clear so he could proceed towards his destination.
Once he was told to proceed, as he was being switched from one control tower to the next, they lost contact and crashed.
This post was edited on 1/27/20 at 10:19 am
Posted on 1/27/20 at 10:16 am to Street Hawk
At the end of the day, it was probably just pushing too hard (in unsafe conditions) to get to the basketball event. Sad
This post was edited on 1/27/20 at 10:16 am
Posted on 1/27/20 at 10:16 am to Street Hawk
quote:
they flew into a mountain at 1700 feet. Flight tracker data shows they were flying at about 161 knots
Dude would've been safer lane splitting on his Hayabusa.
Helicopters and private planes, f that noise.
Skynyrd, Aaliyah, The Big Bopper, Marciano, Payne Stewart, John Denver, SRV, those LSU sorors out there with Epstein, and the chick going to the Peach bowl. RIP
Posted on 1/27/20 at 10:16 am to Street Hawk
at least it was quick
Posted on 1/27/20 at 10:17 am to Janky
quote:
Link?
quote:
Still, it’s possible to do a little speculation with the data that are available. Between 2005 and 2009, there was an annual average of 1.44 fatalities (PDF) per 100,000 flying hours in nonmilitary helicopters. Over the same period, there were 13.2 traffic fatalities per 100,000 population in the United States annually. Since the average American spends around 780 hours per year (PDF) in the car, that means the fatality rate per 100,000 hours of driving time is just 0.017. Based on hours alone, helicopters are 85 times more dangerous than driving.
85 times more dangerous based on hours
LINK
27 times more dangerous based on miles
quote:
Helicopters cover a lot more ground in an hour than a driver on the New Jersey Turnpike, so it might be better to come at the question from another angle. There are approximately 0.8 deaths on the interstate highway system for every 100 million miles traveled. There have been a fair number of studies on the average speed on the interstate system with varying results, but the average is probably somewhere around 68 miles per hour, give or take a few mph. That means it took drivers approximately 1.47 million hours to travel those 100 million miles, yielding a fatality rate of 0.054 per 100,000 hours in the car. By this measure, helicopter flying is just 27 times more dangerous than driving.
Posted on 1/27/20 at 10:17 am to FeauxPaw
S 76 is a powerful bird flying IFR is not a problem. But, I'd rather have 2 pilots in IFR than 1 b/c things can get rather busy.
Law enforcement was grounded due to fog I think mainly b/c they have little reason to fly IFR to look for bad guys and chase cars - gotta see 'em to catch 'em. Don't know if they have IFR rated choppers and pilots.
Whatever the final cause it won't just be fog, it will be that plus some other contributing factor either pilot error or mechanical failure.
Too many variables to speculate but if I had to guess it would be all of the above.
Law enforcement was grounded due to fog I think mainly b/c they have little reason to fly IFR to look for bad guys and chase cars - gotta see 'em to catch 'em. Don't know if they have IFR rated choppers and pilots.
Whatever the final cause it won't just be fog, it will be that plus some other contributing factor either pilot error or mechanical failure.
Too many variables to speculate but if I had to guess it would be all of the above.
This post was edited on 1/27/20 at 11:25 am
Posted on 1/27/20 at 10:18 am to MojoGuyPan
quote:
Helicopters and private planes,
not so much the planes themselves...
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