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re: Judge Rules Defendant in Gruver Trial Must Give Cellphone Password to Prosecutors
Posted on 1/28/19 at 2:30 pm to Displaced
Posted on 1/28/19 at 2:30 pm to Displaced
This is analogous to records. If your records are in a file cabinet with a combination lock, the court could order you to give the combination for the purpose of accessing the records. This really doesn't have much to do with self-incrimination in the sense that the court still cannot force to the testify about anything. JMHO.
1
Posted on 1/28/19 at 2:37 pm to BiggerBear
quote:
the court could order you to give the combination for the purpose of accessing the records.
And I could forget the combo. Granted they can just break in to the filing cabinet. Not so much a modern iPhone.
Posted on 1/28/19 at 2:41 pm to Centinel
quote:
And I could forget the combo. Granted they can just break in to the filing cabinet. Not so much a modern iPhone.
Strong encryption FTMFW... unless they throw you in jail for it.
Law and order types fricking HATE the prospect of strong encryption allowing citizens to have secrets... citizen.
This post was edited on 1/28/19 at 2:42 pm
Posted on 1/28/19 at 2:48 pm to Centinel
quote:
If it's an Android, yup. Those can be cracked in seconds. An iPhone 6+? Nope.
Cellebrite can bust through iOS11 with ease and is known to work through iPhone 8/X. iOS12 has some measures to try to prevent them, but I don't think either side has acknowledged anything yet on it. Apple put some options in to disable some features of the lightning port after a time period of being locked in an attempt to prevent Cellebrite.
Their services aren't that expensive for court cases either when you send the phone to them.
This post was edited on 1/28/19 at 2:49 pm
Posted on 1/28/19 at 2:53 pm to Dam Guide
Huh. Well you can tell mobile device forensics isn't my wheelhouse. 
Posted on 1/28/19 at 2:57 pm to Wayne Campbell
quote:
Say he had physical photos locked in a trunk in his closet. Police get a warrant, can he not be ordered to provide the key to unlock the trunk?
I understand that there is a difference in difficulty of access within this comparison. I'm just not sure why it would be different considering they both include locked, physically or electronically, items.
Key to a house, combination to a safe, key to a car, etc. none have to be provided by the defendant if a warrant is issued to retrieve contents within the locked property.
The difference here is it is easy (and legal) for the state to break into the car, house, safe, etc. They also can legally break into his iPhone. However, breaking the code on the iPhone is more difficult than picking a lock on a vehicle or busting down a door.
Posted on 1/28/19 at 2:59 pm to Centinel
Until you realize the password is probably a word password and not a set of numbers, thus making it almost impossible for any company to crack the password in a reasonable amount of time
Posted on 1/28/19 at 3:30 pm to TigersSEC2010
I'm sure they could hack his phone if they wanted to. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out.
Posted on 1/28/19 at 3:36 pm to Coomdaddy
If it’s a iOS Face ID try holding power and either of the two volume buttons for a couple seconds. If the “slide to power off” screen comes up then Face ID is temporarily disabled. No matter what you do from that point, you’ll have to enter your passcode to unlock it.
Posted on 1/28/19 at 11:16 pm to Centinel
That's what contempt is for. You sit in jail until you remember.
Posted on 1/28/19 at 11:21 pm to BiggerBear
They can't keep you in there indefinitely. You can wait them out if you have the want.
Posted on 1/28/19 at 11:27 pm to TigersSEC2010
What are they trying to get that they don’t already have from the phone company.. videos?
Posted on 1/29/19 at 2:54 am to UpToPar
quote:
What exactly are they looking for here? I assume they can go through the cell phone carrier to get the text messages, right? So they must think he has incriminating pictures or messages sent through other means.
I’ve heard Snapchat stores your data for 2 years, depending on how long he draws this out he could potentially have a clean Snapchat. I’m sure GroupMe/texts are incriminating however these could already be accessed via phone carrier warrant and looking through other people’s phones.
Posted on 1/29/19 at 3:02 am to Centinel
Why don’t they just follow the NSA and cia and just go download his entire text email call history from that great federal database where the spy on us and store it? Seems stupid to hold a man in contempt for this when the nanny state has already violated our privacy. Alexa, stop listening now.
This post was edited on 1/29/19 at 3:03 am
Posted on 1/29/19 at 4:04 am to Wayne Campbell
quote:
Say he had physical photos locked in a trunk in his closet. Police get a warrant, can he not be ordered to provide the key to unlock the trunk?
I understand that there is a difference in difficulty of access within this comparison. I'm just not sure why it would be different considering they both include locked, physically or electronically, items.
Better analogy would be the police ordering you to tell them where the key is.
Here’s a hypothetical.. police believe a suspect is guilty of murder. They execute a search warrant at his house and they find a locked, impenetrable safe which contains the murder weapon. Can the police compel the suspect to tell them the combination? What if the suspect’s defense is that it’s “not his safe”. Providing that combination would amount to self-incrimination.
Extrapolating that to the iPhone scenario.. what if it’s not the defendent’s phone? What if the defendant just bought the phone right before he was arrested and truly doesn’t remember the password? Those ideas may not seem realistic, but I think folks should realize that the right answer isn’t necessarily about THIS case. It’s about the precedent it would set for all other potential cases, which will all have their own unique features.
That’s why we have the Supreme Court, I suppose.
Posted on 1/29/19 at 4:37 am to TigersSEC2010
I am sorry judge I forgot my password...
Posted on 1/29/19 at 4:49 am to UpToPar
quote:
Now, we are approaching Big Brother territory.
Only now? Theres a long list of slippery slope 4th amendment rulings I could give you... starting with the 3rd party exception and ending with this.
The 4th amendment is swiss cheese.
This post was edited on 1/29/19 at 4:53 am
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