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re: Judge Rules Defendant in Gruver Trial Must Give Cellphone Password to Prosecutors
Posted on 1/28/19 at 11:34 am to Ash Williams
Posted on 1/28/19 at 11:34 am to Ash Williams
quote:
Those are called wiretaps and they've existed for a long time
I'm talking about text messages and pictures/snap chat messages, messenger apps data stored on the cloud or elsewhere.
What exactly are they looking for here? I assume they can go through the cell phone carrier to get the text messages, right? So they must think he has incriminating pictures or messages sent through other means.
1
Posted on 1/28/19 at 11:34 am to Ash Williams
quote:
According to the news, the FBI paid almost $1,000,000 to a "vendor" to get into the phone, but that vendor has never been publicly named.
Ya it has. Cellebrite. I mean everyone knew it was Cellebrite even before it came out because they are the leading expert on iOS forensics.
Posted on 1/28/19 at 11:35 am to beerJeep
quote:
Now I’m starting to rethink my iPhone X
This is why I do not have an iPhone X
I understand both sides to the argument on this. Although, personally, I think they should not be able to order him to open his phone if they are not able to access it. However, it is complicated because the only reason this is happening is because they can't hack it like they can your computer.
Posted on 1/28/19 at 11:35 am to Jon Ham
quote:
If they can convince a judge it is more likely than not the phone contains evidence of a crime and there’s no other way, within reason, to obtain the evidence, then yes, they have a right to search the phone within the area they believe contains the evidence.
They're more than entitled to search the phone. But searching the phone is not the same as compelling a criminal defendant to make a statement, which is the issue here.
Posted on 1/28/19 at 11:36 am to UpToPar
quote:
Not quite. It’s like a judge ruling you must turn over your personal journal.
It's like a judge ruling that you must give the state the combination to the safe that your journal is in. Which the defendant does not have to do.
This post was edited on 1/28/19 at 11:40 am
Posted on 1/28/19 at 11:36 am to Centinel
I doubt the EBR DA is going to have a million dollars in the budget to crack this kid's password.
Posted on 1/28/19 at 11:37 am to Centinel
quote:
Ya it has. Cellebrite. I mean everyone knew it was Cellebrite even before it came out because they are the leading expert on iOS forensics.
well frick me
I havent looked at it in years
I just remember when they first cracked it some guys i knew with the feds had their own theory that it was Apple
Posted on 1/28/19 at 11:39 am to Damone
quote:
It's a judge ruling that he must provide information, i.e. a statement, against himself. It's a blatant constitutional violation.
The problem is that the statement itself isn't incriminating. It's just a series of numbers. This is certainly not the same as compelling a confession.
Posted on 1/28/19 at 11:39 am to Ash Williams
The best part is they're an Israeli company.
*cue the conspiracy theories*
*cue the conspiracy theories*
Posted on 1/28/19 at 11:42 am to TigersSEC2010
Lots of keyboard lawyers in this thread
Posted on 1/28/19 at 11:44 am to Damone
quote:
They're more than entitled to search the phone. But searching the phone is not the same as compelling a criminal defendant to make a statement, which is the issue here.
The 5th says you don’t have to be a witness against yourself. Is providing a code fall unde being a witness? What does the code itself have anything to do with the criminal actions?
If a serial killer was caught and they found his journal which was titled “a description of all my kills (do not open without my permission)” would police have to get his permission before opening?
Posted on 1/28/19 at 11:44 am to barry
quote:
Lots of keyboard lawyers in this thread
Only in our spare time after benching 400, banging OT 9.5's and piloting ships up the Mississippi.
Posted on 1/28/19 at 11:46 am to NYCAuburn
quote:
quote:
Yikes. This one may make it to the Supreme Court.
probably not since there have been several rulings like this
But, none have made it to the Supreme Court.
I'm guessing that one will make it long before this one gets out of the Louisiana Supreme Court.
There are just way too many of these cases out there for the Supreme Court to remain silent.
This post was edited on 1/28/19 at 11:48 am
Posted on 1/28/19 at 11:57 am to MMauler
Figured out a way around this. Don’t grant him bail, and give him his phone while in the cell with video surveillance. I bet you he unlocks that phone within a month. At that time you could charge him and take the phone for fear of destruction of evidence.
Posted on 1/28/19 at 11:57 am to EA6B
quote:
In the case of the terrorist/shooter in California, he refused to give them the password, and Apple refused to give them a workaround, the investigators hired a outside firm to crack the phone which is probably what will happen here.
That was an iPhone 5C. Completely different with new phones/iOS versions.
Posted on 1/28/19 at 12:01 pm to Dam Guide
I hit the power button 5 times and my Apple Pay came up. 
Posted on 1/28/19 at 12:03 pm to Ash Williams
edit: NVM, see it was addressed already.
This post was edited on 1/28/19 at 12:05 pm
Posted on 1/28/19 at 12:05 pm to Coomdaddy
quote:
I hit the power button 5 times and my Apple Pay came up.
Don't know what to tell you, works fine on mine. Brings up slide to power off and SOS. This means it works. Hit it five times quick.
Posted on 1/28/19 at 12:10 pm to Jon Ham
quote:
If a serial killer was caught and they found his journal which was titled “a description of all my kills (do not open without my permission)” would police have to get his permission before opening?
Courts do not consider personal journals or diaries confidential, if found in a legal search, or subpoenaed, they can be used as evidence against you.
LINK
This post was edited on 1/28/19 at 12:17 pm
Posted on 1/28/19 at 12:14 pm to Dam Guide
There is a good chance the prosecutors already have what is on the phone, but need a way to get it admissible in court. There was a case where one of the open carry nut jobs that was walking around his city with an AR that got arrested for other charges because of it and he filmed the entire walk. They took his phone and when he tried to get the video off his phone from them and use the video as evidence against the police, they fought giving the phone or video back to him every inch of the way even lying about having it. Once he finally got them to give him a copy of the video without getting the phone back, he found that they were in his phone within a day or two of the arrest.
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