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re: Israel–Hamas War Discussion Thread: News Links On First Page
Posted on 10/10/23 at 10:57 pm to lsupride87
Posted on 10/10/23 at 10:57 pm to lsupride87
0
Posted on 10/10/23 at 11:00 pm to Burt Orangello
quote:
Hamas is the elected power in Gaza.
I'm not sure how legitimate their elections are. I'm sure they'd make Putin blush.
Posted on 10/10/23 at 11:01 pm to Jester
Hard to tell who did what in Gaza but Hamas has operated with impunity for years, been elected by these people, and allowed them to operate from their buildings, blaming the Jews for any casualties caused by Hamas violating Geneva.
Do I want all Palestinians dead? No. But I certainly understand Israel’s perspective and their insistence that nothing like this happen again.
It’s like people who live in the hood… if you are too afraid to turn people over to the cops or to move out, my amount of sympathy for being caught in the crossfire when someone comes for the local gang is low.
Do I want all Palestinians dead? No. But I certainly understand Israel’s perspective and their insistence that nothing like this happen again.
It’s like people who live in the hood… if you are too afraid to turn people over to the cops or to move out, my amount of sympathy for being caught in the crossfire when someone comes for the local gang is low.
Posted on 10/10/23 at 11:01 pm to Taxing Authority
The Gaza residents elected Hamas. Maybe not all of them. But a plurality of them.
Hamas doesn't represent all of Palestine. But represents the citizens of Gaza. After the events of this week, Hamas can no longer be allowed to exist in proximity to Israel.
Hamas doesn't represent all of Palestine. But represents the citizens of Gaza. After the events of this week, Hamas can no longer be allowed to exist in proximity to Israel.
Posted on 10/10/23 at 11:05 pm to lsupride87
quote:I'd love it if innocent Palestinians INSIDE Gaza escaped harm. But it was Hamas' actions that put them in jeopardy. When those innocent people (tragically) are harmed, we need to remember who caused it. Blaming Israel for defending itself is intellectually lazy at best. Dishonest at worst.
Currently there is a disconnect in this thread between the understanding that civilians will die and the thirst for wiping out all Palestinians.
-------
Palestinians outside of Gaza should face no harm
Posted on 10/10/23 at 11:07 pm to lsupride87
quote:
Burt, honestly I think you are a very bright person. But if we let you lead in America in 1941 the world would be United under the Nazi flag currently.
For every “great evil country” in history, a shite load if not the majority of the actual people of that country weren’t actually bad. They were just foot soldiers for the evil regime. That’s kinda how it goes.
How you draw that conclusion from anything I've argued is beyond me, but okay.
You do realize that some people can make judgments on different situations with different facts, circumstances, and variables, treating each one as unique and requiring a different answer...right?
It's pretty obvious many in this discussion can't, but believe it or not, there are some people out there who can.
Posted on 10/10/23 at 11:09 pm to SmackoverHawg
quote:I’m just saying, I wouldn’t want people judging all Americans off of the queer freaks you see on social media so I’ll try not to judge all Palestinians off. Now I know it’s a whole fricking lot of them that support Hamas and I’m down for the Israelis fricking them up because I believe they deserve it, and I know that there’s gonna be some innocent collaterals in the process, that’s just part of war, but I’m not for Genociding every man woman and child of Palestine. Then you’re no better than they are.
You lay with dogs you're gonna get fleas.
Posted on 10/10/23 at 11:09 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
I'd love it if innocent Palestinians INSIDE Gaza escaped harm. But it was Hamas' actions that put them in jeopardy. When those innocent people (tragically) are harmed, we need to remember who caused it. Blaming Israel for defending itself is intellectually lazy at best. Dishonest at worst.
I have in the past called for Israel to keep it proportional to the offense. I do here too, but proportional to this offense is... drastic.
Im with you, sad for the innocents and rightly blaming Hamas for whats to come.
Posted on 10/10/23 at 11:09 pm to Burt Orangello
Every country that has been the “big bad” in the War had tons of innocent great people. Many more than Gaza. Stating that Gaza or anyone else “isn’t all bad” isn’t much of a revelation. Or it shouldn’t be to anyone.
It just doesn’t matter in War and it never has. If you try and make it matter, you will never win said war
War is awful. The definition is humans murdering other humans. It’s horrific. Good people will die. I mean I’m not trying to be a smart arse but it can’t be stated any better. Hamas needed to get blown off the planet. To do so Gaza needs to be leveled. To do that means anyone in Gaza is in the crosshairs
It just doesn’t matter in War and it never has. If you try and make it matter, you will never win said war
War is awful. The definition is humans murdering other humans. It’s horrific. Good people will die. I mean I’m not trying to be a smart arse but it can’t be stated any better. Hamas needed to get blown off the planet. To do so Gaza needs to be leveled. To do that means anyone in Gaza is in the crosshairs
This post was edited on 10/10/23 at 11:12 pm
Posted on 10/10/23 at 11:11 pm to Jester
quote:let's put it this way, in 2017 Abbas put sanctions on the Gaza Strip as head of the Palestinian Authority.
I'm not sure how legitimate their elections are. I'm sure they'd make Putin blush.
Yes, the head of the Palestinian Authority put sanctions on the Gaza Strip.... not just Hamas, the whole Gaza Strip.
So the head of the PA did not choose, politically, to separate the GS from Hamas and treated them one in the same.
ETA: and Israel chose to honor Abbas' sanctions in partnership with the PA creating the myth that Israel is the sole cause of their economic hardships.
This post was edited on 10/10/23 at 11:15 pm
Posted on 10/10/23 at 11:11 pm to Jester
quote:
Nobody is calling for pacifism here. Hamas should be eliminated. That doesn't mean killing all Palestinians, though.
Sir, in this thread there are only two opposing extremes. There is room for judgment. If you don't think all Palestinians are guilty and need killing, then you support the beheading of babies. You have to choose one or the other. It's that simple.
Posted on 10/10/23 at 11:12 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:who’s blaming israel? Israel has every right to go in and frick then up. But people saying shite like, “ i wouldn’t be against killing all the future terrorist too” is going off the deep end. Your talking about full on baby murder at that point
I'd love it if innocent Palestinians INSIDE Gaza escaped harm. But it was Hamas' actions that put them in jeopardy. When those innocent people (tragically) are harmed, we need to remember who caused it. Blaming Israel for defending itself is intellectually lazy at best. Dishonest at worst.
Posted on 10/10/23 at 11:13 pm to Duke
quote:
I do here too, but proportional to this offense is... drastic.
I don't see it so much in terms of proportionality. My view is that it can never be allowed to happen again. Hamas doesn't get a "do-over" this time.
Posted on 10/10/23 at 11:13 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:Its basically what we did to Japan. Take away their absolute will in order to save some of our soldiers in the future
who’s blaming israel? Israel has every right to go in and frick then up. But people saying shite like, “ i wouldn’t be against killing all the future terrorist too” is going off the deep end. You’re talking about full on baby murder at that point
What’s the goal as a leader? To protect as many innocent people on the enemies side, or to protect your own troops? It’s an answer that’s not simple
Imagine someone gives you the choice, murder 5,000 innocent enemy women and children to save 50k of your own soldiers. What is the “right” choice as an elected leader who is sworn to protect the people that elected him?
This post was edited on 10/10/23 at 11:17 pm
Posted on 10/10/23 at 11:17 pm to LSUneaux
quote:
Holy frick look at this destruction to Gaza already and Israel has barely started.
Yep, this is all just targeted air strikes. They haven't even began to approach an all out bombardment.
I have a feeling that if Hezbollah or some other entity or state decides to open another front that Israel will show what true "air superiority" looks like and start to unleash everything they have.
Posted on 10/10/23 at 11:18 pm to Rebel
quote:
I don't see it so much in terms of proportionality
I was saying proportionality is
quote:
is that it can never be allowed to happen again
This post was edited on 10/10/23 at 11:19 pm
Posted on 10/10/23 at 11:23 pm to IAmNERD
quote:there's a reason they are probably limiting sorties right now... if Hisbollah moves they will quickly exhaust their pilots and machines.
Yep, this is all just targeted air strikes. They haven't even began to approach an all out bombardment.
I have a feeling that if Hezbollah or some other entity or state decides to open another front that Israel will show what true "air superiority" looks like and start to unleash everything they have.
They're saving themselves for the really hot chick in the Jordan Valley who pose a serious military threat. You can bet your arse observers are doing their best to identify tail markings and are counting the number of sorties over which intervals. And Israel, as they have done in the past, are changing those tail markings, RTB'g to different aerodromes so that out=/=in to confuse those observers.
Posted on 10/10/23 at 11:23 pm to ibldprplgld
quote:
I still see buildings standing. Israel needs to change that.
Destroyed buildings/rubble are easier to defend….read up in the siege of Stalingrad or the battle for Hue City.
Posted on 10/10/23 at 11:25 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:LegendInMyMind said it better than I could, and I quoted it for a reason.
But people saying shite like, “ i wouldn’t be against killing all the future terrorist too” is going off the deep end. Your talking about full on baby murder at that point
quote:
Currently there is a disconnect in this thread between the understanding that civilians will die and the thirst for wiping out all Palestinians.
Posted on 10/10/23 at 11:40 pm to lsupride87
quote:yeah we nuked Japan. We didn’t erase the Japanese from the planet. We didn’t kill all the “ future banzai chargers.” So again, I’m all for fricking up Hamas, which means killing some innocents that’s just how war works, but there’s a difference between breaking their will and genociding them. I’m also okay with Israel taking over all of Gaza I just don’t think they should exterminate all Palestinians while they do it.
Its basically what we did to Japan. Take away their absolute will in order to save some of our soldiers in the future What’s the goal as a leader? To protect as many innocent people on the enemies side, or to protect your own troops? It’s an answer that’s not simple Imagine someone gives you the choice, murder 5,000 innocent enemy women and children to save 50k of your own soldiers. What is the “right” choice as an elected leader who is sworn to protect the people that elected him?
This post was edited on 10/10/23 at 11:41 pm
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