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re: Israel–Hamas War Discussion Thread: News Links On First Page
Posted on 10/10/23 at 10:42 pm to lsupride87
Posted on 10/10/23 at 10:42 pm to lsupride87
quote:
We didn’t fight the nazis, we fought ALL of Germany, which is exactly what you are now advocating against
This is absolutely false. Our troops didn't run roughshod over Germany, killing every man, woman, and child. They killed Nazi soldiers.
quote:
Yet now you argue against everything we did in WW2
You don't get to make things up.
This post was edited on 10/10/23 at 10:50 pm
2
Posted on 10/10/23 at 10:43 pm to dukke v
quote:
That’s why they call it WAR. There has never been a war without death and suffering of innocent people.
There have been plenty wars without genocide.
This post was edited on 10/10/23 at 10:44 pm
Posted on 10/10/23 at 10:43 pm to Jester
quote:The eyeroll is intentional. If you're going to reduce it to "killing all Palestinians", I can reduce it to "pacifism".
Nobody is calling for pacifism here. Hamas should be eliminated. That doesn't mean killing all Palestinians, though.
Posted on 10/10/23 at 10:45 pm to lsupride87
quote:don't forget we did everything we could to stay out of WWII as Nazi Germany rampaged through western europe, tried to bomb Britan into submission through civillian casualties, split Poland with the Bolsheviks, and later burnt and raped their way through half of European Russia before we responded to being attacked.
Yet now you argue against everything we did in WW2
We did not ENTER WWII on moral grounds. We damn sure adopted that position during and after... but entering the war was anything but a principled decision.
There's some parallels here. Not perfect ones mind you, but close enough.
Posted on 10/10/23 at 10:45 pm to Jester
quote:What percentage of the German army do you think supported the Nazi party and ideology?
They killed Nazi soldiers.
Do you think we were taking time to make sure we only hit bad Nazis when we leveled Berlin?
Posted on 10/10/23 at 10:46 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
But the idea that the Hamas should be spared, based on some portion of the population that doesn't support them is at risk... cannot hold up.
To be clear, I'm in no way advocating that. I'm just saying that every Palestinian is not responsible for this. I can assure you that there is a significant number of Palestinians in Gaza today that are appalled at the attacks and terrified of what Hamas will do to them if they try to escape to Egypt. It's a very, very shitty situation.
Posted on 10/10/23 at 10:47 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
The eyeroll is intentional. If you're going to reduce it to "killing all Palestinians", I can reduce it to "pacifism".
Do whatever you want
Posted on 10/10/23 at 10:48 pm to Jester
Correct, there are Palestinians who weren’t part of this… they live in the West Bank.
Posted on 10/10/23 at 10:49 pm to Jester
Most Germans, the heavy majority, were appalled by the holocaust. Far more than those Palestinians that oppose Hamas
Those that truly oppose Hamas have had plenty of time to leave. Now, it’s the time to face the retribution of an attacked country in Israel
Those that truly oppose Hamas have had plenty of time to leave. Now, it’s the time to face the retribution of an attacked country in Israel
Posted on 10/10/23 at 10:51 pm to teke184
quote:
Correct, there are Palestinians who weren’t part of this… they live in the West Bank.
So you really believe there is absolutely no difference in opinion amongst the millions of people living in Gaza?
Posted on 10/10/23 at 10:51 pm to Jester
How do you feel about the U. S. Dropping two nuke bombs on Japan????
Posted on 10/10/23 at 10:53 pm to lsupride87
quote:
We didn’t fight the nazis, we fought ALL of Germany, we didn’t take the time to separate the Nazis from the non nazi Germans, which is exactly what you are now advocating against. You don’t have the leisure of doing so in war, especially in a war that was brought upon you
I don't think it is fair to reduce what he is saying to that.
He, as we all should, can acknowledge that not all Palestinians support Hamas, and therefore not all of them deserve to die. At the same time the realist, which I believe Burt O. is, understands that there will be massive civilian casualties and there is really no way around that. Using that reality as a way to prop up outright genocidal rhetoric, of which there has been some here, isn't helpful or realistic.
Currently there is a disconnect in this thread between the understanding that civilians will die and the thirst for wiping out all Palestinians.
Posted on 10/10/23 at 10:53 pm to I20goon
quote:Yep. The avarage German soldier killed in WWII was an average every day good person. Just ask the accounts of the Americans that took care of the German prisoners. They got along great
There's some parallels here. Not perfect ones mind you, but close enough.
Those Germans suffered the fate of their leaders decision at the hands of the American bullet. That’s almost all wars. Eberyday soldiers taken the death for their leaders decisions.
Now, as it relates here, the people of Gaza actually have elected Hamas and the majority supports it
Posted on 10/10/23 at 10:54 pm to Jester
quote:true, but irrelevant.
To be clear, I'm in no way advocating that. I'm just saying that every Palestinian is not responsible for this. I can assure you that there is a significant number of Palestinians in Gaza today that are appalled at the attacks and terrified of what Hamas will do to them if they try to escape to Egypt. It's a very, very shitty situation.
I'll ask it this way with 2 questions:
- Did Hamas, the elected governmental authority in Gaza, do what it did to with the express intent to better/protect its people?
- Is what Israel doing and will be doing for the betterment/protection of its people?
We know these answers. But let me add a little to those answers:
- Hamas did this with funding, urging, and at the behest of Iran. They are mercenaries who just brought hell to their own people who would never have benefitted from success.
- Israel is determined to eradicate a threat to its people from these mercenaries even if it means sinking to their level.
Posted on 10/10/23 at 10:55 pm to lsupride87
quote:
I happen to believe everything you say and think you are right
I appreciate that, but I'll also say I hope you don't blindly believe everything I say just because I said it. I'd hope it's more along the lines of "trust but verify", even if it's just thinking long and hard before buying it.
quote:
And Hamas was the elected power. Its people will suffer those consequences.
Hamas is the elected power in Gaza. Gaza and the West Bank are two territories, both of which formally fall under the jurisdiction of the Palestinian Authority. However, Hamas governs Gaza because it controls Gaza (yes, via the will of those people). The PA governs/controls the West Bank and is wildly different than Hamas. They have very little influence in or control over Gaza/Hamas.
With regard to the current situation, they shouldn't be lumped together or treated the same. In other situations, sure. In this one and many others, no.
That's all I've been trying to clean up...the overly broad generalizations that apply everything to everyone.
Of course, it's the internet so everything gets reduced/oversimplified. That's just the way it is. I get it.
Posted on 10/10/23 at 10:55 pm to LegendInMyMind
quote:Palestinians outside of Gaza should face no harm, just as Germans outside of Germany should face no harm in WW2
Currently there is a disconnect in this thread between the understanding that civilians will die and the thirst for wiping out all Palestinians.
All palestenians in Gaza will face the wrath of war and there shouldn’t be many qualms made about that besides saying war is hell
Posted on 10/10/23 at 10:55 pm to dukke v
quote:
How do you feel about the U. S. Dropping two nuke bombs on Japan????
It's hard to look back in hindsight on that decision. The belief was that Japan would not surrender otherwise. I don't know how true that is. I just know that the amount of suffering was tragic.
Point being, I wouldn't dare sit here with 80 years of hindsight and judge Truman for making that decision. I just hope it really was the only realistic choice.
This post was edited on 10/10/23 at 10:57 pm
Posted on 10/10/23 at 10:55 pm to Jester
quote:Of course not. Just like many in the WTC didn't vote for GWB. I get your point. I agree with it for the purposes of judging individuals. But that's not wars get conducted. It can't be. And again-- those innocents got put into peril because of Hamas' actions--not Israel's.
I'm just saying that every Palestinian is not responsible for this.
If Hamas does NOT kill thousands of innocent Israeli civilians, Gaza residents are going about their day, and we're bemoaning now ishtty LSU's defense is today instead of this.
quote:Absolutely. There is no good that could have possible come from Hamas killing thousands of people. None.
I can assure you that there is a significant number of Palestinians in Gaza today that are appalled at the attacks and terrified of what Hamas will do to them if they try to escape to Egypt. It's a very, very shitty situation.
Posted on 10/10/23 at 10:56 pm to Jester
quote:One of the most important parts of not losing your humanity is not losing your sense of humor.
Do whatever you want
Posted on 10/10/23 at 10:57 pm to Hateradedrink
quote:
I’ll be sure to ask Putin to not glass eglin or the Pensacola NAS if there’s a strategic exchange because Florida is a red state and Biden isn’t their president
I appreciate your attempt at a witty zinger, but that's not even close to the same thing. It's so far off it makes you look silly.
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