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Started By
Message
re: Interesting Article On Lack Of Black Medical Students
Posted on 4/7/16 at 2:06 pm to CoachChappy
Posted on 4/7/16 at 2:06 pm to CoachChappy
quote:
1,000,000's of years of hunter/gatherer survival living>>>>>100 years of slavery under the white man.
This.
0
Posted on 4/7/16 at 2:10 pm to Ingeniero
That's a lot of disppointed Asian parents
Posted on 4/7/16 at 2:24 pm to uway
quote:
That's not racism, that's evolution.
Actually, it's a little racist
. You know, by definition and all. It may not be intended as an insult or an "attack" on African Americans, but you are giving a predisposed notion based purely on their race and what you think is genetic fact about their race (and totally isn't proven). So, you know.....racist. I see where you are coming from. I definitely think African Americans have certain body types, etc. due to genetics. But I don't think that their intelligence is on any different of a level than other races. I think culturally across the globe, they are behind and not through fault of their own necessarily. They are concentrated in underdeveloped areas, or part of societies where they have been oppressed. That's led to them taking up a large portion of the lower class in developed societies. If you separated white people into middle class families and those that grew up in trailer parks, you'd likely see the same exact results. The problem is that a majority of their demographic is stuck in a certain class at this time. You can say it's a chicken or egg coming first argument. But I (not a bleeding heart liberal at all or advocate of affirmative action in any way) believe that if the cycle could be stopped in any way, it wouldn't take long for the black population to be exactly on par with any other race. Being stuck in the lower class who does not put any importance in education, doesn't instill discipline, comes from broken homes, etc. is a vicious cycle no matter what your race is. Not easy to get out of. It's truly your parents that have the biggest influence on whether you have the desire and work ethic to push yourself to be something like a doctor.
I do not believe it is my responsibility to somehow fix a demographic. It may be wrong to perpetuate the issue by somehow oppressing that group further. But stereotyping isn't necessarily oppressing. I mean look at the original statistic she didn't care for in the book. She didn't like that they listed that statistically, these issues happen in Hispanic and AA families. Facts are not racist. There is a cause for that effect. Understanding it is of paramount importance. We should not be avoiding issues at the sake of feelings. That causes more problems.
quote:
Turk was always the last one I'd want operating on me
And bullshite. Chocolate Bear is cutting on me before The Todd.
Posted on 4/7/16 at 2:28 pm to KG6
This post has been marked unreadable!
Posted on 4/7/16 at 2:37 pm to NIH
Blacks had text scores on par with whites and Asians prior to the crack epidemic. Freakanomics. Just stating its not as cut and dry as you allude to. Flame away.
Posted on 4/7/16 at 2:40 pm to KG6
quote:
I see where you are coming from. I definitely think African Americans have certain body types, etc. due to genetics. But I don't think that their intelligence is on any different of a level than other races.
Posted on 4/7/16 at 2:41 pm to NIH
Hold for income and two-parent households. It's a societal issue, not a genetic issue. Trailer park kids are highly likely to test worse than a stable family kid.
Posted on 4/7/16 at 2:52 pm to NIH
quote:
Blacks on average have a lower IQ than whites or Asians. That's a fact, not speculation
You're IQ score is not 100% set in stone. At least in regards to the output of your test. I was in gifted classes and took IQ tests as young as the 3rd grade. The test does account for age and tries to measure purely intelligence and not education (for example I had a lot of puzzles to put together in 3rd grade compared to more written stuff in high school), but it's not completely independent of education. If a kid can't read, he's not going to do well on the test. Not saying anyone should be socially promoted, but I do not think that at any appreciable level, any race is dumber than the other. I think cultural work ethic is the determining factor. Asians and Indians for example tend to do well in highly technical education fields, but I think that has more to do with how they were raised than how they were bred.
Posted on 4/7/16 at 2:53 pm to Montezuma
quote:
Hold for income and two-parent households. It's a societal issue, not a genetic issue. Trailer park kids are highly likely to test worse than a stable family kid.
That's not a popular opinion here for some reason. I grew up in a two-parent household with educated parents who were raised by educated grandparents. I have a Ph.D. in an engineering field, so I don't consider myself an idiot. But according to some, none of that matters simply because I'm black.
If more blacks grow up in environments that nurture education and learning, then the achievement gaps will close, IMO.
Posted on 4/7/16 at 2:53 pm to Montezuma
That is likely not true... LINK
This is a right-wing blog, but it references peer reviewed scientific research in this post. There are dozens of other similar findings in recent years.
It is what it is...it does not, nor could it, conclude that all AA are low IQ or incapable of attending and excelling at medical school, for instance. However, there are certain alleles that are predictors of intelligence.
How someone could conclude that genetics only equate to the physical body and not the mind...and that as a result, we are all mental blank slates at birth wholly dependent on our environment and work ethic to achieve academic success is beyond me.
This is a right-wing blog, but it references peer reviewed scientific research in this post. There are dozens of other similar findings in recent years.
It is what it is...it does not, nor could it, conclude that all AA are low IQ or incapable of attending and excelling at medical school, for instance. However, there are certain alleles that are predictors of intelligence.
How someone could conclude that genetics only equate to the physical body and not the mind...and that as a result, we are all mental blank slates at birth wholly dependent on our environment and work ethic to achieve academic success is beyond me.
Posted on 4/7/16 at 3:08 pm to DeltaDoc
quote:
mental blank slates at birth wholly dependent on our environment and work ethic to achieve academic success is beyond me.
No one is saying that in the least. There is no doubt that some are genetically smarter. You are just trying to tie it to races without enough evidence to do so. There are sooooooo many other factors involved that no one can make that correlation at this time. To do so would be simple minded. Do you know the racist stuff people spew when they don't fully understand. It used to be common thought that blacks couldn't swim because they were denser than white people!!!!! We know that shite's not true now, it has more to do with not having access to pools. But didn't stop ignorant people from jumping to stupid "scientific" conclusions.
quote:
How someone could conclude that genetics only equate to the physical body and not the mind
And my statement that body types are genetic and not the mind is only that I think there is a good theory as to why they are that way in regards to physical characteristics. I do not think the theory for intelligence is at all acceptable. I think it takes intelligence to survive in the wild just as it does to take a math test. So it is not "bred out" of primitive societies. But the education may not be there. I think intelligence is genetic, just don't see conclusive evidence that it is the reason for racial disparity in education levels. Too many people not living up to their potential to truly know what their intelligence is across the board.
This post was edited on 4/7/16 at 3:15 pm
Posted on 4/7/16 at 3:10 pm to DeltaDoc
quote:
essentially start medical school out of high school.
This was tried at LSU School of Medicine in Shreveport but had mixed results. It was subsequently abandoned but I'm not sure why.
Six year medical student program
Posted on 4/7/16 at 3:28 pm to KG6
quote:
And my statement that body types are genetic and not the mind is only that I think there is a good theory as to why they are that way in regards to physical characteristics. I do not think the theory for intelligence is at all acceptable. I think it takes intelligence to survive in the wild just as it does to take a math test. So it is not "bred out" of primitive societies. But the education may not be there. I think intelligence is genetic, just don't see conclusive evidence that it is the reason for racial disparity in education levels. Too many people not living up to their potential to truly know what their intelligence is across the board.
We agree that success in testing is both IQ and environment. We both agree that for a number of reasons, African Americans, on average, have rougher home lives and less support, than whites and that most certainly plays a role in medical school numbers - to circle back to the original topic.
I never made any association between Africans surviving in the wild and intelligence - don't mistake me for that guy.
Having said that, there is a difference between wild survival intelligence and math intelligence - it is the difference between humans and primates...and worms for that matter. Again, to say otherwise is ridiculous and juvenile.
quote:
I think intelligence is genetic, just don't see conclusive evidence that it is the reason for racial disparity in education levels.
There are studies out that on this topic. Educate yourself.
quote:
Too many people not living up to their potential to truly know what their intelligence is across the board.
There are geniuses living under bridges across this country right now and working in cubicles. There probably are not many sub-90 IQ people working as surgeons though...no matter how hard they work. That is genetic. Is it harsh? Depends on how you look at it...but it is reality.
Posted on 4/7/16 at 3:55 pm to KG6
quote:Bingo
Actually, it's a little racist . You know, by definition and all. It may not be intended as an insult or an "attack" on African Americans, but you are giving a predisposed notion based purely on their race and what you think is genetic fact about their race (and totally isn't proven). So, you know.....racist.
quote:You are on a roll my friend
I see where you are coming from. I definitely think African Americans have certain body types, etc. due to genetics. But I don't think that their intelligence is on any different of a level than other races. I think culturally across the globe, they are behind and not through fault of their own necessarily. They are concentrated in underdeveloped areas, or part of societies where they have been oppressed. That's led to them taking up a large portion of the lower class in developed societies. If you separated white people into middle class families and those that grew up in trailer parks, you'd likely see the same exact results. The problem is that a majority of their demographic is stuck in a certain class at this time. You can say it's a chicken or egg coming first argument. But I (not a bleeding heart liberal at all or advocate of affirmative action in any way) believe that if the cycle could be stopped in any way, it wouldn't take long for the black population to be exactly on par with any other race. Being stuck in the lower class who does not put any importance in education, doesn't instill discipline, comes from broken homes, etc. is a vicious cycle no matter what your race is. Not easy to get out of. It's truly your parents that have the biggest influence on whether you have the desire and work ethic to push yourself to be something like a doctor.
quote:Why the frick aren't you running for a public office? It is the type of unbiased, non pandering thinking that could fix this country if we all could jump aboard. Beautifully spoken
I do not believe it is my responsibility to somehow fix a demographic. It may be wrong to perpetuate the issue by somehow oppressing that group further. But stereotyping isn't necessarily oppressing. I mean look at the original statistic she didn't care for in the book. She didn't like that they listed that statistically, these issues happen in Hispanic and AA families. Facts are not racist. There is a cause for that effect. Understanding it is of paramount importance. We should not be avoiding issues at the sake of feelings. That causes more problems.
Posted on 4/7/16 at 4:01 pm to KG6
quote:
Not saying anyone should be socially promoted, but I do not think that at any appreciable level, any race is dumber than the other.
So you believe we are made physically different but that doesn't include our brains? Ok.
Posted on 4/7/16 at 4:06 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Asians get the short end of the straw
the minority that isn't considered a minority
As a group they have always intrigued me. Relations with Asian countries and America haven't always been strong and even to a point we nuked a country and enslaved their people in camps. Yet you never hear a damn peep out of them.
Posted on 4/7/16 at 4:12 pm to NIH
quote:
So you believe we are made physically different but that doesn't include our brains? Ok.
Mental gymnastics or being disingenuous.
There is likely just as much variance in mental ability as physical ability. Can a person of average physical ability work themselves above the mean from an athletic or physical appearance standpoint? Yep. Will they play in the NBA or NFL? Nope. Can factors relative to how they are raised contribute to being athletic or healthy or obese? No doubt. But, in the end, you are what you are genetically - some are more gifted than others both physically and mentally.
Now, we are talking IQ and performance of standardized tests to gain acceptance to medical school.
Being successful outside of something that requires a standardized test to be a part of is a completely different thing.
This world in business is often much more about who you know than even your own intelligence. In that sense, I get the argument from many minorities that the system is rigged against them. They are statistical minorities and that inherently will create bias in the "who you know" structure of our culture...and humanity as far as that goes.
Posted on 4/7/16 at 4:23 pm to KG6
quote:
You're IQ score is not 100% set in stone
You sure about that?
Posted on 4/7/16 at 4:28 pm to LordSaintly
quote:
If more blacks grow up in environments that nurture education and learning, then the achievement gaps will close, IMO.
I hear you brother, and I agree completely. You know my position here and in other places though - several things working at once:
1. Black folks absolutely do not like being told what to do by white folks, therefore,
2. ALL that change has to come from black community leaders, educators and pastors.
Problem is - vast majority of those folks in item 2. - are totally sold on the victim/blame game and/or compromised by a very narrow political persuasion that prevents them from getting on their soap box and telling it like it is.
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