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How Boeing fell apart.

Posted on 10/22/24 at 10:30 pm
Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
54992 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 10:30 pm
Interesting 2019 article in Thebignewsletter.com on how Boeing fell apart thanks to the merger with McDonnell Douglas. A merger forced by the government.

The Big Newsletter website.

quote:

For the bulk of the 20th century, Boeing made miracles. Its engineers designed the B-52 in a weekend, bet the company on the 707, and built the 747 despite deep observer skepticism. The 737 started coming off the assembly line in 1967, and it was such a good design it was still the company’s top moneymaker thirty years later.

How did Boeing make miracles in civilian aircraft? In short, the the civilian engineers were in charge. And it fell apart because the company, due to a merger, killed its engineering-first culture.

In 1993, Clinton’s Deputy Secretary of Defense, Bill Perry, called defense contractor CEOs to a dinner, nicknamed “the last supper.” He told them to merge with each other so as, in the classic excuse used by monopolists, to find efficiencies in their businesses. The rationale was that post-Cold War era military spending reductions demanded a leaner defense base. In reality, Perry had been a long-time mergers and acquisitions investment banker working with industry ally Norm Augustine, the eventual CEO of Lockheed Martin.

Perry was so aggressive about encouraging mergers that he put together an accounting scheme to have the Pentagon itself pay merger costs, which resulted in a bevy of consolidation among contractors and subcontractors. In 1997, Boeing, with both a commercial and military division, ended up buying McDonnell Douglas, a major aerospace company and competitor. With this purchase, the airline market radically consolidated....

Unlike Boeing, McDonnell Douglas was run by financiers rather than engineers. And though Boeing was the buyer, McDonnell Douglas executives somehow took power in what analysts started calling a “reverse takeover.” The joke in Seattle was, "McDonnell Douglas bought Boeing with Boeing's money."

The merger sparked a war between the engineers and the bean-counters; as one analyst put it, "Some of the board of directors would rather have spent money on a walk-in humidor for shareholders than on a new plane
."...

The key corporate protection that had protected Boeing engineering culture was a wall inside the company between the civilian division and military divisions. This wall was designed to prevent the military procurement process from corrupting civilian aviation. As aerospace engineers Pierre Sprey and Chuck Spinney noted, military procurement and engineering created a corrupt design process, with unnecessary complexity, poor safety standards, “wishful thinking projections” on performance, and so forth. Military contractors subcontract based on political concerns, not engineering ones....

At any rate, when McDonnell Douglas took over Boeing, the military procurement guys took over aerospace production and design. The company began a radical outsourcing campaign, done for political purposes. In defense production, subcontractors were chosen to influence specific Senators and Congressmen; in civilian production, Boeing started moving production to different countries in return for airline purchases from the national airlines.

Engineers immediately recognized this offshoring as a disaster in the making. In 2001, a senior Boeing engineer named L. Hart Smith published a paper criticizing the business strategy behind offshoring production, noting that vital engineering tasks were being done in ways that seemed less costly but would end up destroying the company. He was quickly proved right.
Posted by Riverside
Member since Jul 2022
5492 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 10:35 pm to
Still paying the price for Clinton’s nonsense. What a shame.
Posted by SouthEasternKaiju
SouthEast... you figure it out
Member since Aug 2021
36291 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 10:41 pm to
Seems to be the general consensus of how it played out.

Very unfortunate, but a bonus for SpaceX in the long.
Posted by adavis
North of I-10
Member since Aug 2007
5841 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 10:42 pm to
Place the blame wherever is convenient, but Boeing falls apart 40,000 ft from the ground. There’s definitely lots of stupid politics involved, but the company played along and produced sub-par equipment, while putting civilians’ lives at risk.
Posted by AlonsoWDC
Memphis, where it ain't Ten-a-Key
Member since Aug 2014
9170 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 10:47 pm to
Went cheap to earn the shareholders a buck.
This post was edited on 10/22/24 at 10:48 pm
Posted by Candyman
Member since Sep 2017
641 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 10:56 pm to
You are about to see the same things happen in the chemical plants in this area. I've never seen such incompetence in this sector, but largly the top. The engineering is terrible, safety is no longer important, and the most competent people on the job are the ones that supervisian wants to get rid of the quickest, before they get exposed for being a dumbass. Production is the only thing thats important. They are more concerned about how well you can write a resume, than how well you actually do a job. (And lets not forget about DEI)

Boeing had plane doors flying off in flight. I suspect we will start seeing man hole covers flying over the city from plant pressure vessels.
This post was edited on 10/22/24 at 11:06 pm
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
39278 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 11:17 pm to
quote:

Place the blame wherever is convenient, but Boeing falls apart 40,000 ft from the ground. There’s definitely lots of stupid politics involved, but the company played along and produced sub-par equipment, while putting civilians’ lives at risk.


This. Politics might have forced mergers, but it didn’t force military bean counters to take over civil aviation.
Posted by Dr RC
The Money Pit
Member since Aug 2011
59959 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 11:17 pm to
quote:

Still paying the price for Clinton’s nonsense. What a shame.


Ehh...

The exact same shite would have happened under a Republican. Private equity pukes own both sides of our government and they are the ones responsible for driving this country into the dirt more than anything else. They're the ones who offshore everything to the point we can't make our own shite anymore. They're the ones who demand never ending cuts in product quality and the work force while they continually give themselves bonuses and raises. shite, they're even the ones who fund all the media that is purposely driving wedge after wedge into American society so their looting of the country can go unnoticed.

Posted by wm72
Brooklyn
Member since Mar 2010
8785 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 11:29 pm to
quote:

Ehh...

The exact same shite would have happened under a Republican. Private equity pukes own both sides of our government and they are the ones responsible for driving this country into the dirt more than anything else. They're the ones who offshore everything to the point we can't make our own shite anymore. They're the ones who demand never ending cuts in product quality and the work force while they continually give themselves bonuses and raises. shite, they're even the ones who fund all the media that is purposely driving wedge after wedge into American society so their looting of the country can go unnoticed.



It won't be popular here because most people so much enjoy rooting for their politicking team and blaming the other at all costs but it's 100% spot on.
Posted by AlwysATgr
Member since Apr 2008
19104 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 11:36 pm to
Boeing acquired Rockwell before the MD deal. And they were playing on the diversity wheel after the Rockwell deal. IOW, Boeing was DEI before DEI was cool.

There's probably a lot of merit in the OP's article. Most of what Boeing does well now is from yesteryear's momentum preserved in their design manuals.

But ever how much things changed for the worse from the MD deal, don't let it distract from the deleterious effects of DEI. Wouldn't be surprised if that's the new spin.
Posted by kywildcatfanone
Wildcat Country!
Member since Oct 2012
130589 posts
Posted on 10/23/24 at 4:34 am to
quote:

How Boeing fell apart.


They started by having software designed by idiots and not actually bolting the planes together, and putting accountants in charge.
Posted by Teufelhunden
Galvez, LA
Member since Feb 2005
5898 posts
Posted on 10/23/24 at 4:36 am to
quote:

don't let it distract from the deleterious effects of DEI


And there it is. First page. Well done.
Posted by Penrod
Member since Jan 2011
47491 posts
Posted on 10/23/24 at 5:00 am to
quote:

the general consensus
All consensuses are general. That’s what consensus means.
Posted by aTmTexas Dillo
East Texas Lake
Member since Sep 2018
19605 posts
Posted on 10/23/24 at 5:18 am to
They just needed to design the 797 years ago.
Posted by artompkins
Orange Beach, Al
Member since May 2010
6024 posts
Posted on 10/23/24 at 5:45 am to
Boeing fell apart when they had to bribe and conspire with our government to take away the Airbus award of their superior aircraft and make our military settle for their junk plane they can’t even supply. Bull shite arse company and has been for a long time.
Posted by N2cars
Member since Feb 2008
34789 posts
Posted on 10/23/24 at 6:19 am to
Government procurement personnel are living proof that any idiot can get a decent job in America.

The vast majority of them absolutely could not pour piss out of a boot with directions on the heel.
Posted by GetCocky11
Calgary, AB
Member since Oct 2012
53396 posts
Posted on 10/23/24 at 7:10 am to
quote:

Private equity pukes own both sides of our government and they are the ones responsible for driving this country into the dirt more than anything else. They're the ones who offshore everything to the point we can't make our own shite anymore. They're the ones who demand never ending cuts in product quality and the work force while they continually give themselves bonuses and raises. shite, they're even the ones who fund all the media that is purposely driving wedge after wedge into American society so their looting of the country can go unnoticed.


PE and bean counters have ruined everything from airplanes all the way down to the hamburger we eat at the local fast food place.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
283027 posts
Posted on 10/23/24 at 7:39 am to
Bankers and accountants said "frick you" to the engineers.
Posted by Landmass
Premium Member
Member since Jun 2013
21373 posts
Posted on 10/23/24 at 7:42 am to
They outsourced to HCL (Indian company) and got what they paid for. Anyone that has had the misfortune of dealing with HCL knows exactly what I am talking about.

Outsourcing to India is stupid. Outsourcing as an engineering company to India is insanely stupid.
Posted by Night Vision
Member since Feb 2018
15338 posts
Posted on 10/23/24 at 7:44 am to
Boeing is big into DEI.
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