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re: Have you watched The Social Dilemma
Posted on 9/17/20 at 12:52 pm to chalmetteowl
Posted on 9/17/20 at 12:52 pm to chalmetteowl
quote:
Wouldn’t you rather them tailor your feed to your individual preference than subtly only show you stories that advance the public good?
Social media shouldn't make me "prefer" or "tailor," at all. That's the entire problem.
As soon as they entered into marketing, and now into thought policing, it was all over.
If it was still just a public forum that I had complete control over what I saw and when I saw it, and all the channels that fed it, that would be fine. But that's not what social media is anymore. All of the artificial customization and tailoring that happens is precisely the problem, because those in charge realized how powerful that is.
0
Posted on 9/17/20 at 1:16 pm to beerJeep
quote:
The private sector is more efficient and better at every single thing compared to the govt
Every.
Single.
Thing.
This kind of dogmatic adulation of the free market is as dumb as the far left that thinks capitalism is evil. It's all a balance. Corporations don't govern - government does. When the side effects of an industry harm society at large, we must manage the side effects.
The efficiency of the private sector comes at a cost. Corporations chase the almighty dollar and growth every single year regardless of consequences. We've seen it throughout history, and this whole topic is because of said consequences. It doesn't make capitalism evil, we have capitalism to thank for everything we love today. We have to acknowledge, though, that there are consequences for advancement - things like pollution, climate change, Ozone depletion (for a time, until big bad government banned CFCs), and now social media as it stands today threatens the future of our country and our children's lives and needs regulation.
Posted on 9/17/20 at 1:20 pm to Salmon
quote:
lets discuss this
the programs give you, the user, what you want, which is what they are designed to do
so why are we blaming the program here and not the user?
if the user wants outrage porn and the program gives them outrage porn, whose fault is that?
You are definitely getting to the heart of the debate here. What if you replace “program” with “drug dealer” and replace “outrage porn” with “heroin”? Isn’t it the same argument? There’s plenty of precedent for the government regulating an industry in the name of societal good. And I think most people (some libertarians not withstanding) agree that unregulated heroin sales would be a bad thing. Also, it’s not that the user “wants” outrage porn as much as the platform has identified them as being susceptible to being sucked into it. I do think there’s a difference.
At the end of the day, the tech companies are maximizing earnings to the best of their ability within the confines of the law. That is, quite literally, the fiduciary duty of any chief executive.
There are obvious benefits to society from the services these tech companies provide. Even if you put social media aside, I don’t think many people would argue that Google hasn’t provided valuable services to their users. OTOH, there are a growing number of detrimental effects to society because of the business model used by these companies.
So the trillion dollar question is: does the good outweigh the bad? And it’s not an easy question to answer. If Google had to change their business model, would we still have Gmail, Google Maps, or YouTube? Would those services still be free? Is there a way to minimize the societal detriments without completely destroying the business model?
I don’t claim to know all the answers. But I know that lawmakers are woefully behind the technology, and the gap gets wider every year. Hell, at this point Google is too big to fail.
Posted on 9/17/20 at 1:32 pm to Hulkklogan
quote:
Corporations don't govern - government does.
(sigh)
The market governs corporations. Corporations thrive and succeed if they deliver goods/services that the market demands. Government is a hindrance to this process. A leech if you will.
Posted on 9/17/20 at 1:35 pm to kciDAtaE
The premise is that when you are using a product for free... What you are using isn't the product. You are the product and the machine (social media) is manipulating you into clicking, liking, commenting, reposting, sharing etc to make money. The machine learning tools are geared toward keeping you online longer and becoming more engaged. The longer you are engaged the more money the social media company is able to make. They have quadrillions of data points to connect with you. They know more about you than your family, friends, doctors, attorneys etc. They can predict what you are about to do next and entice you to go down a rabbit hole.
Furthermore there are corporations, government's bother foreign and domestic, and other bad actors that know how to take the data and buy ads that might be somewhat truthful but once they get that click they can take you further and further down the rabbit hole until you are believing blatant lies.
Why people don't understand is is because they are the people that are and can be easily manipulated. Humans as a whole are nothing more than cattle that can be herded.
Furthermore there are corporations, government's bother foreign and domestic, and other bad actors that know how to take the data and buy ads that might be somewhat truthful but once they get that click they can take you further and further down the rabbit hole until you are believing blatant lies.
Why people don't understand is is because they are the people that are and can be easily manipulated. Humans as a whole are nothing more than cattle that can be herded.
Posted on 9/17/20 at 2:07 pm to armsdealer
quote:
It was OK. You just have to know how to play the system. I do most of my stuff in private browsing with blockers, when I WANT targeted ads I just open a regular chrome browser and search for stuff related to it, I have found some great deals with targeted ads, especially for first time customer offers. I don't post shite on social media. I will post in groups and on others timelines, but if you look at my timeline it is other people tagging me on birthdays, fathers day, first day of school, etc. I share a meme about once ever 3 years, never a personal post.
Well, you’re an arms dealer, so I’d hope you’re internet footprint is quite light.
This post is on page 2 and I haven’t read the rest, so forgive me if what I’m about to say has been been discussed. I just wanted to address it while I’m thinking about it and because I’ve seen a few posts similar to it. But it’s not about YOU or ME or really any of us individually who aren’t as susceptible to social media’s influence. (Though I’d likely argue that even the most diligent among us are still subconsciously influenced more than we realize.)
It’s—to me, anyway—more about the influence on the collective, society as a whole. As a parent, I’m worried about not just the long-term societal effects for my children and how they interact with actual people in the real world, but also the effects on their developing brains. It can’t be good for long-term health to be addicted to the little bursts of dopamine or serotonin that comes with every like, response, or re-Tweet. Now I can—theoretically—control what my kids consume. But what about all the other assholes they’ll be inheriting the world with?
But those are long-term effects that we have time to address. The more pressing problem is just how much division social media is currently causing. Or maybe they aren’t causing it directly, but they sure are making it easy for us to cause it ourselves.
I haven’t been a big consumer of MSM in almost a decade (Why wait for anything elsewhere when I can get it all here hours before), but with COVID, the election, and all the civil unrest, I’ve tuned in much more this year and have made it a point to watch both CNN and FOX to compare. No matter which “side” you’re on, if you only watch one, you would think we’re not just living in different Americas, but different worlds altogether. Because that’s how it’s presented.
And if social media is running algorithms that simply feed you stories that just further confirms your existing biases, no matter how well-intentioned you may be? Well, frick. That’s terrifying. Who knows what to believe if we’re all just unknowingly herded into our inevitable echo chambers. The producers/controllers of the information want maintain that power, and we consumers are too comfortable, too stupid or lazy to resist.
This post was edited on 9/17/20 at 2:08 pm
Posted on 9/17/20 at 2:20 pm to Hulkklogan
quote:
When the side effects of an industry harm society at large, we must manage the side effects.
Like fast food? Like high fructose corn syrup?
quote:
needs regulation.
say it with me.
Personal.
Responsibility.
THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR WELL BEING. ONLY YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR WELL BEING.
Posted on 9/17/20 at 2:23 pm to Hulkklogan
quote:
When the side effects of an industry harm society at large, we must manage the side effects.
Yes. We must.
We, meaning society at large, not the government.
Posted on 9/17/20 at 2:35 pm to DeafJam73
What if you've never been on or cared about Facebook? What if you don't have Twitter/Snapchat/Instagram and don't give a shite to ever use it? What if you don't shop online and never have? What if the website that receives the lions share of someone's time and attention is TD.com?
Posted on 9/17/20 at 2:42 pm to RT1941
TD can cause the same problems that FB, IG, etc can cause. TD is mostly an echo chamber. Certain beliefs are championed and lifted up here and others are shouted down. Most of the stories shared here have a certain slant.
A lot of people that never got on or quit FB just use TD as their personal FB.
Read the comment section of a local news story, then come to TD and read the comments about the same story and the comments will look exactly the same for the most part.
A lot of people that never got on or quit FB just use TD as their personal FB.
Read the comment section of a local news story, then come to TD and read the comments about the same story and the comments will look exactly the same for the most part.
Posted on 9/17/20 at 2:45 pm to Salmon
quote:Ehh, my daughter has told me for years that "you may not do FB, but TD is the same thing."
TD can cause the same problems that FB, IG, etc can cause. TD is mostly an echo chamber. Certain beliefs are championed and lifted up here and others are shouted down. Most of the stories shared here have a certain slant.
A lot of people that never got on or quit FB just use TD as their personal FB.
Read the comment section of a local news story, then come to TD and read the comments about the same story and the comments will look exactly the same for the most part.
Posted on 9/17/20 at 2:48 pm to RT1941
From a purely psychological, surrounding yourself in a bubble/echo chamber perspective, TD is very much like FB
I don't think Chicken is tracking us or selling our metadata like FB though...
...or at least not yet
I don't think Chicken is tracking us or selling our metadata like FB though...
...or at least not yet
Posted on 9/17/20 at 3:02 pm to beerJeep
Personal.
Responsibility.
BTW for all those calling for the government, they will ban boobs from Twitter!
Big deal to some people, idgif, but government isn't always the answer.
Responsibility.
BTW for all those calling for the government, they will ban boobs from Twitter!
Big deal to some people, idgif, but government isn't always the answer.
Posted on 9/17/20 at 3:04 pm to MsBhamTiger
Let me guess, social media is used against us?
Posted on 9/17/20 at 3:07 pm to beerJeep
Don't forget all the fed gov money to fix LA bad roads, for 18 to 21 LOL. Germany age to drink is 16, but we are free here..
Posted on 9/17/20 at 3:09 pm to Salmon
I suppose this is just a divergence of core beliefs. I respect your opinion, but I don't really agree.
I do think personal responsibility is important and will go a long way, but I don't think that's going to do much to decentivize the Facebooks of the world to stop preying on people. Even people who know how bad social media can be for you have a hard time controlling the addiction. TikTok is INSANELY good at sucking you in. It's scary. An hour feels like 10 minutes.
Totally agree.
I do think personal responsibility is important and will go a long way, but I don't think that's going to do much to decentivize the Facebooks of the world to stop preying on people. Even people who know how bad social media can be for you have a hard time controlling the addiction. TikTok is INSANELY good at sucking you in. It's scary. An hour feels like 10 minutes.
quote:
TD can cause the same problems that FB, IG, etc can cause. TD is mostly an echo chamber. Certain beliefs are championed and lifted up here and others are shouted down. Most of the stories shared here have a certain slant.
A lot of people that never got on or quit FB just use TD as their personal FB.
Read the comment section of a local news story, then come to TD and read the comments about the same story and the comments will look exactly the same for the most part.
Totally agree.
This post was edited on 9/17/20 at 3:11 pm
Posted on 9/17/20 at 3:15 pm to Hulkklogan
quote:
I suppose this is just a divergence of core beliefs. I respect your opinion, but I don't really agree.
and that's fine
I fully expect there to be some type of legislation or agency designed to regulate social media in the near future
I just don't think it will be effective
Posted on 9/17/20 at 3:17 pm to Salmon
I think it could be effective if the right people are involved
Unfortunately, if I know our government, they'll put CTOs and CEOs of the tech companies in charge of their own regulation
Unfortunately, if I know our government, they'll put CTOs and CEOs of the tech companies in charge of their own regulation
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