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Didn’t realize Ratcliffe was tortured & murdered by the indians

Posted on 6/13/26 at 12:35 am
Posted by hawgfaninc
https://youtu.be/torc9P4-k5A
Member since Nov 2011
63917 posts
Posted on 6/13/26 at 12:35 am

quote:

Those who tried to obey died

Gov. Ratcliffe, for example, the one demonized by Disney's Pocahontas propaganda, was a constant enemy of John Smith because Smith demanded violent reprisals and Ratcliffe wanted to deal peacefully with the natives. They tortured him to death for it

Even when starving, for example, Ratcliffe tried to buy corn from the Indians rather than just take it. The Indians took the opportunity to torture him to death for no reason at all, ignoring that he had been the one calling for them to be treated as people worthy of peace and respect rather than just crushed

Here is how Benjamin Woolley describes that in his (surprisingly honest) book Savage Kingdom:

As the barge approached Powhatan's royal enclosure, Ratcliffe was greeted by servants offering gifts of venison and bread from the mamanatowick, and the captain sent copper and beads in thanks. Ratcliffe and his crew were then escorted inland through a large cornfield to a house near Powhatan's enclosure, where they were told they could stay for the duration of the visit. Powhatan's children, meanwhile, returned to their father.

That evening, Powhatan came in person to greet the visitors, bringing with him Spelman and Thomas Savage, together with a Dutch boy named Samwell, who had been left with the Indians since Smith's debacle with the Dutch sent to work at Werowocomoco. Powhatan greeted his guests, and returned to his own quarters.

The following morning, the emperor came with Spelman and 'a company of savages', including several women, to escort Ratcliffe and his party to a nearby storehouse. There the Englishmen were shown a collection of huge baskets brimming with corn, which through Spelman Powhatan announced he was willing to trade. A price was agreed, and the captain handed over 'pieces of copper and beads and other things according to the proportion of the baskets of corn which they [had] bought'.

Powhatan took his leave, the women and Spelman following. The English soldiers, relishing the resumption of decent rations, began to carry the corn the half-mile or so to the barge. However, they quickly discovered from the weight of the baskets that they had false bottoms, and were almost empty.

The English began to complain loudly of being cheated, 'whereat a great number of Indians, that lay lurking in the woods and corn about' began shouting 'with an oulis and whoopubb', as Spelman described it. The English made a run for the barge, carrying what corn they could. But within sight of their boat, they were ambushed by Indian warriors lying in a neighbouring cornfield. Just two of the English soldiers managed to escape the ensuing onslaught by running off into the woods.

Captain Ratcliffe was seized and brought before Powhatan at his enclosure. There was no sign of Spelman, Savage or Samwell, who, 'fearing the worst', had fled. According to Smith, Spelman had been tipped off by Pocahontas that he would be in peril if he stayed. One of the English soldiers who had managed to escape the Indians' attack was hiding in the nearby undergrowth, and it was he who later reported to Percy what happened to Ratcliffe.

A fire was kindled at the foot of a tree. Ratcliffe was stripped of his clothes, and tied to the tree. Several women then approached the naked captain. They began to flay his skin with the sharp edges of mussel shells, gently teasing it away from the flesh. They then sliced through the muscle and sinews to remove the limbs and organs from his body, which were 'before his face thrown into the fire; and so for want of circumspection [he] miserably perished'.


quote:

The Virginia Company made the settlers who arrived at Jamestown try this out

They were under strict orders to avoid fighting, to try to convert the Indians, to work with them rather than defeat and expel them

That led to much suffering, culminating in the 1622 Massacre, in which a third of the colony died

Then they went scorched earth on the Indians, wiping out as many as they could and engaging in harsh reprisals. That worked much better, and bought them 20 years of peace

They did the same when confronted by the sand problem in 1644, and then Nathaniel Bacon wiped out what remained of the I Dian problem during his rebellion

Peace at any cost let only to death. War and stern reprisals created the conditions for a prosperous society
Posted by Kafka
I am the moral conscience of TD
Member since Jul 2007
157947 posts
Posted on 6/13/26 at 12:40 am to
quote:

Ratcliffe wanted to deal peacefully with the natives. They tortured him to death for it
Posted by RollTide1987
Baltimore, MD
Member since Nov 2009
71322 posts
Posted on 6/13/26 at 12:43 am to
Ratcliffe was done dirty by Disney in the mid-90s. Rather than the xenophobic, greedy, and authoritarian governor the film Pocahontas portrayed him as, he was actually a peaceable man who wanted nothing more than to trade with the natives of the Pamunkey tribe. It ended up costing him his life in the most violent and painful of ways.
This post was edited on 6/13/26 at 12:45 am
Posted by theunknownknight
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2005
61061 posts
Posted on 6/13/26 at 5:30 am to
Growing up is realizing the bad guys in cartoons, like Skeletor, were right

Posted by drexyl
Mingovia
Member since Sep 2005
23406 posts
Posted on 6/13/26 at 5:47 am to
Ruthless people. A reason we called them savages - not because they were simple and primitive but because they would kill you in unspeakable ways. Drag a newborn baby behind a horse and then put it back into a weeping mother’s arms - and then when it still moved strangle it to death.
Posted by mdomingue
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2010
48025 posts
Posted on 6/13/26 at 7:06 am to
quote:

Growing up is realizing the bad guys in cartoons, like Skeletor, were right

Posted by wryder1
Birmingham
Member since Feb 2008
4963 posts
Posted on 6/13/26 at 7:07 am to
This is why Indians were wiped out, along with small pox. The ridiculous fantasy created by history that Indians were innocent people that only wanted peace is complete BS. The only time they wanted peace was when the realization hit that they would and could be exterminated at the will of the white man. One thing that has held true from then until now is that savages will only get in line when your violence is greater than theirs.
Posted by wadewilson
Member since Sep 2009
41768 posts
Posted on 6/13/26 at 8:15 am to
Sherman was right
Posted by lsuconnman
Baton rouge
Member since Feb 2007
5343 posts
Posted on 6/13/26 at 8:22 am to
Jeffrey the librarian has the best colonist content on YT, and the Tandy2000 video game graphics he uses are truly nostalgic.
Posted by cypresstiger
The South
Member since Aug 2008
14190 posts
Posted on 6/13/26 at 8:27 am to
Ratcliffe was killed in 1609, just 2 years after Jtown was founded. Gov John Rolfe, who married Pocahontas, was massacred in 1622.
Posted by Epaminondas
The Boot
Member since Jul 2020
5942 posts
Posted on 6/13/26 at 8:38 am to
quote:

A reason we called them savages - not because they were simple and primitive but because they would kill you in unspeakable ways.
"He [George III]...has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions."

- Declaration of Independence
Posted by sledgehammer
SWLA
Member since Oct 2020
7417 posts
Posted on 6/13/26 at 8:39 am to
Mostly peaceful savages.
Posted by tide06
Member since Oct 2011
23875 posts
Posted on 6/13/26 at 8:48 am to
quote:

Drag a newborn baby behind a horse and then put it back into a weeping mother’s arms - and then when it still moved strangle it to death.

They’d usually just bash their brains out against a tree so they wouldn’t slow down the captives being taken away or distract the mother from her future duties as a slave, but it varied by tribe.
This post was edited on 6/13/26 at 8:49 am
Posted by soccerfüt
Location: A Series of Tubes
Member since May 2013
75203 posts
Posted on 6/13/26 at 8:54 am to
quote:

Didn’t realize Ratcliffe was tortured & murdered by the indians hawgfaninc
Came here expecting to have to RIP in peace this dude.

Posted by el Gaucho
He/They
Member since Dec 2010
59419 posts
Posted on 6/13/26 at 8:57 am to
And the boomers on this board want to let in millions of Indians to stick it to the millennials
Posted by el Gaucho
He/They
Member since Dec 2010
59419 posts
Posted on 6/13/26 at 9:01 am to
quote:

Growing up is realizing the bad guys in cartoons, like Skeletor, were right

The people that make the cartoons write the history books too
Posted by Champagne
Sabine Free State.
Member since Oct 2007
55499 posts
Posted on 6/13/26 at 10:13 am to
My whole world fell apart they day I learned that TV Cartoons were not actual characters, actual people and actual events.
Posted by Meauxjeaux
102836 posts including my alters
Member since Jun 2005
47131 posts
Posted on 6/13/26 at 10:39 am to
quote:

War and stern reprisals created the conditions for a prosperous society


Always does, unfortunately
Posted by GreenRockTiger
vortex to the whirlpool of despair
Member since Jun 2020
61013 posts
Posted on 6/13/26 at 10:46 am to
quote:

Ruthless people.
very true - what they did to the missionaries is also deeply disturbing
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