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Started By
Message
re: Dallas CoP explains upsurge in crime
Posted on 6/4/19 at 9:30 am to TheCaterpillar
Posted on 6/4/19 at 9:30 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:
But goddamn our country does a terrible job of actually trying to rehabilitate and reintegrate prisoners into our society.
Do you have any specific info on this topic? Because my take is that the amount of rehabilitation and reintegration going on is varied depending on the court system and locale.
Two truths that most people may suspect but don’t actually know:
1) Rehabilitation stats are very hard to tally, and even proxy stats like recidivism rates and employment rates are hugely inaccurate.
2) A sad truth is that for violent offenders, most “rehabilitation” efforts are ineffective. Recidivism rates barely budge with any strategy that’s tried. That doesn’t mean that all violent offenders always repeat offend, it just means that our efforts to fix them doesn’t really amount to jack squat except for maybe just a slim percentage.
The only “fix” seems to be long term societal change to increase family stability.
This post was edited on 6/4/19 at 9:31 am
2
Posted on 6/4/19 at 9:31 am to Jimbeaux
I'm talkin about recidivism Mr. Mcdonough.
rePEAT OOOFENDer
rePEAT OOOFENDer
Posted on 6/4/19 at 9:32 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:at least 90% of people in prison are beyond repair
mean mandatory therapy sessions in prison, trade training, and slow integration into society via work release. Incentivize prisoners to be released earlier if they accomplish certifications in certain trades or get their GEDs, etc. and actively participate in therapy.
We need to stop letting them out
Posted on 6/4/19 at 9:32 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:
I mean mandatory therapy sessions in prison, trade training, and slow integration into society via work release. Incentivize prisoners to be released earlier if they accomplish certifications in certain trades or get their GEDs, etc. and actively participate in therapy.
The problem is that these programs will be carried out by government bureaucrats and will cost 3x the amount it would in the private sector but if they contract out to the private sector it will most likely end up with an orgranization that contributed to that politician's campaign. No win situation.
Posted on 6/4/19 at 9:36 am to blueridgeTiger
This is her version of "building the community". It's like the Joker got voted in as CoP. Some people just like to watch the world burn.
Posted on 6/4/19 at 9:39 am to WG_Dawg
That’s not a pretty word, now is it, Hi?
Posted on 6/4/19 at 9:42 am to blueridgeTiger
quote:
Chief Hall said, “There are individuals in this city who have returned from prison who cannot find a job, who are not educated. In those instances those individuals are forced to commit violent acts.”
I am not making excuses for them but our justice/prison system is set up to create repeat offenders. I wouldn't be someone you would consider a progressive or liberal either.
Posted on 6/4/19 at 9:42 am to blueridgeTiger
Such a shite hole.
Did I do that right?
Did I do that right?
Posted on 6/4/19 at 9:43 am to blueridgeTiger
It's obviously poorly worded but it's not wrong to say that our criminal justice system falls WAAAAY short of its goal of rehabilitating criminals. Maybe we'd be able to work towards better solutions if every misstatement didn't become a mass opportunity for people to score political points or look smart/funny on social media.
Posted on 6/4/19 at 9:46 am to Jimbeaux
quote:
Do you have any specific info on this topic? Because my take is that the amount of rehabilitation and reintegration going on is varied depending on the court system and locale.
That take would be correct.
quote:
2) A sad truth is that for violent offenders, most “rehabilitation” efforts are ineffective. Recidivism rates barely budge with any strategy that’s tried. That doesn’t mean that all violent offenders always repeat offend, it just means that our efforts to fix them doesn’t really amount to jack squat except for maybe just a slim percentage.
The United States does a far worse job than other countries. Not that I'm arguing we turn into Denmark, but there is a happy medium. We tend to lock people up with only a goal of punishment and give them the bare minimum help for self-improvement. People get emotionally irrational when this topic is brought up and say things like "frick those pieces of shite! Why should we help them?!", when they don't realize it is about helping society as a whole.
quote:
1) Rehabilitation stats are very hard to tally, and even proxy stats like recidivism rates and employment rates are hugely inaccurate.
Recidivism rates aren't really a tricky stat and are what they are. We lock people up a lot more for a lot smaller, non-violent crimes so our rates will be inflated compared to other countries. I get that.
But you can find testimonials for days from people that either went to prison or worked in prisons that detail how it is basically a "crime school". You become unhire-able because of social stigma and not having any hard skills when you get out. You have been around hardcore criminals for a long time behind bars and that is all you know. Your moral compass is fricked up. You commit more crimes and you go back to jail.
Again, I don't think we can fix most prisoners. Period. Most of them are just lost causes.
I do think we could cut down recidivism for a big chunk though through stronger programs (not more programs) while they're in jail and by reducing sentences/jail time for non-violent people.
quote:
The only “fix” seems to be long term societal change to increase family stability.
Yeah I'll agree with this too. Parenting, or lack thereof, can basically be attributed with most of our societal problems.
Posted on 6/4/19 at 9:46 am to bad93ex
quote:
The problem is that these programs will be carried out by government bureaucrats and will cost 3x the amount it would in the private sector but if they contract out to the private sector it will most likely end up with an orgranization that contributed to that politician's campaign. No win situation.
Totally agree.
I'm just speaking in hypotheticals. The whole system is fricked.
Posted on 6/4/19 at 9:46 am to TigerinATL
quote:
It's obviously poorly worded but it's not wrong to say that our criminal justice system falls WAAAAY short of its goal of rehabilitating criminals.
Exactly. We need to decide if we want true rehabilitation or just lock them up permanently. I am ok with either honestly but pretending like we have a working and fair system now is dumb.
Posted on 6/4/19 at 9:49 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:
But goddamn our country does a terrible job of actually trying to rehabilitate and reintegrate prisoners into our society.
Yeah the problem is that they’re shite people to begin with. A Tiger can’t change its stripes. You can’t get blood from a turnip. You can’t teach an old dog new tricks. And so on... Ideally there would be an island they could all be shipped to after they got out so they don’t effect the rest of us who aren’t defective.
Posted on 6/4/19 at 9:53 am to JG77056
quote:
Yeah the problem is that they’re shite people to begin with. A Tiger can’t change its stripes. You can’t get blood from a turnip. You can’t teach an old dog new tricks. And so on... Ideally there would be an island they could all be shipped to after they got out so they don’t effect the rest of us who aren’t defective.
This is why it'll never change in our country.
Sure, most of them are what you call "shite people". But there are tens of thousands of them that just made a non-violent bad judgement call or two and are perfectly capable of re-integrating back into society if given the proper help.
But that'll never happen in our lifetimes because of the social stigma and our ridiculous prison sentences.
Posted on 6/4/19 at 9:57 am to lsu13lsu
quote:
Exactly. We need to decide if we want true rehabilitation or just lock them up permanently.
Honestly, I'm not sure this is a problem we can, or should pour a bunch of resources into solving. This is a symptom. Many crimes come about as the result of people engaging in business activities the state deems illegal. Why? A combination of finding a sense of belonging (why many kids join gangs) and finding an economic niche that pays much better than the legal options available to people lacking skills.
In short, fix the broken family problem caused by government "assistance" and unintended incentives to break families apart, and the education problem, caused largely by all of the broken families that produce kids with no support system to help them succeed in school.
The criminal justice system may not be doing much to help the situation, but you solve the problem when you stop producing as many people that aren't equipped to function as normal citizens in society.
Posted on 6/4/19 at 9:59 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:
Sure, most of them are what you call "shite people". But there are tens of thousands of them that just made a non-violent bad judgement call or two
What you mean like burglars? People who think it’s ok to just take something that doesn’t belong to them? There’s something wrong with a person like that at their core. Prison isn’t designed for reform its designed to separate the defective people from productive members of society.
Posted on 6/4/19 at 10:00 am to blueridgeTiger
So, she is saying that black folks that went to prison are uneducated and violent
Posted on 6/4/19 at 10:00 am to TigerinATL
quote:
that our criminal justice system falls WAAAAY short of its goal of rehabilitating criminals.
First of all, that’s only one of its goals. Other goals include punishment, individual deterrence (keep them from harming society for the time while in jail), and general deterrence (providing a disincentive to commit crimes generally).
Secondly, how realistic is the goal of rehabilitation? How do you measure it and what’s the expected rate of success?
The federal system has many of the programs that have been suggested. The rate of success is mixed.
For the inmates/“parolees” who have low risks/needs scores, they tend to do well regardless of whether they receive programming or not. In fact, some do worse with more interventions.
For those really problem cases, the ones who commit the vast majority of the violent crimes, none of the programs have much positive effect.
There’s a thin slice of the inmate population right in the middle who form the real target audience for these programs, and there are some successes, but it needs to be highly intensive in man hours and resources to be effective.
Still, the “magic wand” thinking that great programming will fix these guys is, unfortunately, not the case by and large.
Posted on 6/4/19 at 10:00 am to TH03
Is this another food thread?
The only thing to eat once you leave Dallas County is Applebees and Whataburger.
The only thing to eat once you leave Dallas County is Applebees and Whataburger.
Posted on 6/4/19 at 10:00 am to tylercsbn9
quote:
Imma guess she was a double token hire
Dallas hired her away from Detroit where she was Deputy Chief.
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