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re: Church shooting in SC***Update**Suspect Identified/Captured
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:52 am to 14&Counting
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:52 am to 14&Counting
quote:Yep. I mean, the kid was willing to murder 9 innocent people. But no way he would break the gun law. I mean sure, he is willing to break the law about murdering people, but noway he would stoop to breaking a gun law
By banning guns...which is what the POTUS wants to do
2
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:52 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Rather, "the answer" is that this is America, where we value liberty, including liberty to own tools to defend ourselves from crime and government aggression, and there are costs associated with that liberty. We will work in ways to limit those costs without infringing on the freedoms we value, but some costs will remain.
Totally agree with you. The right to bear arms doesn't have so much to do with defense from crime as it does with the ability to fend off an oppressive government. Armed and pissed off citizens help keep the government honest. Which is exactly why you see the statists pushing for gun control or elimination.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:52 am to tankyank13
quote:
Times have changed, sadly it needs to be more common
Agreed. I'm not arguing for gun control at all. I believe we have the right to protect ourselves. My argument is more that, no matter how relaxed our gun laws are, there will always be "soft spots" where, more than likely, nobody is going to have a gun (elementary schools, churches, etc.) and these places will most likely continue to be attacked.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:52 am to cas4t
quote:
cas4t
If I am Usher, I always carry.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:54 am to CidCock
Have any conspiracy theorists chimed in yet?
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:54 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
Of course this allows me to make my usual point that, if I were exactly the same person, except black, I would be pissed off to no end at being lumped in with all the black trash who do wrong things. And it is nothing more than laziness - black skin=bad and so forth. But I would be more pissed off at other black folks behaving badly in the numbers they do and causing these problems for me and the majority of law abiding, decent, hardworking black folks like my hypothetical self in this example. However, on the other hand - there is a clear difference - other than a few anti-government types - MOST white folks were happy to see McVeigh get the needle and celebrate when Manson is denied parole every time. OJ's acquittal was applauded by the majority of black folks at the time (or at least a significant plurality) - and he killed 2 white people in cold, calculating fashion.
I get your point but it ignores the lenses some AA view their lives in america through. Most black people knew damn well that he was guilty. However, we are also cognizant how the hands of Justice far too many times jailed innocent men, excessively punished men, etc. they were celebrating a black man circumventing the Justice system with wealth and power---something white Americans with the resources had been doing for hundreds of years
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:55 am to CidCock
So in Sandy Hook and this shooting the killers, who both appear to be mentally unstable, obtain guns from their parents. Maybe people just need to stop being shitty parents?
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:56 am to cas4t
I stated earlier in this thread that the church I attend has men scattered throughout the sanctuary who are concealed carrying. Most are law enforcement or retired military. It's been that way for years, and it's an intentional safety plan for this kind of scenario. That is the world we live in today.
A Wednesday night likely would be different and it would just depend on if one of those guys was in them at class.
A Wednesday night likely would be different and it would just depend on if one of those guys was in them at class.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:56 am to Golfer
quote:
So in Sandy Hook and this shooting the killers, who both appear to be mentally unstable, obtain guns from their parents. Maybe people just need to stop being shitty parents?
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:56 am to cas4t
Catholic churches use to keep their doors open 24 hours a day. They can't do that anymore due to theft, vandalism, and evil. Yes people would do that to a church, but its the times we are in. Packing in church isn't a crazy idea anymore, no matter how sad it sounds
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:56 am to StrongSafety
quote:
I get your point but it ignores the lenses some AA view their lives in america through. Most black people knew damn well that he was guilty. However, we are also cognizant how the hands of Justice far too many times jailed innocent men, excessively punished men, etc. they were celebrating a black man circumventing the Justice system with wealth and power---something white Americans with the resources had been doing for hundreds of years
this is an honest question
how do you live in reality when so much of your claimed identity is founded in absolute mythology?
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:57 am to RLDSC FAN
quote:
Have any conspiracy theorists chimed in yet?
Yes.. 1) Guys facebook page was created a month ago and he only has 89 friends, half of which are black and none of them know him in real life.
2) A quote from reddit on the last page or a couple back was analyzing the security footage and comparing it to google maps.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:57 am to CidCock
well that seems unnecessary, even taking into account today's events. But then again your church might be down Morrison
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:59 am to Pax Regis
quote:
The right to bear arms doesn't have so much to do with defense from crime as it does with the ability to fend off an oppressive government.
Well it is about both of those things - and more. It is about a mindset that a free people, acting in concert with each other are armed against whatever threat - barbarians at the frontier, common criminals, criminal gangs and, if it comes to that, oppressive government.
And this mindset - if it were more widely held, would extend it's protective effect to almost everyone.
Why do shooters favor schools? Legally disarmed.
Why do so few people rob gun stores and pawn shops (although a few souls do overcome the obvious bad idea that it is)? Because they fight back.
If I tell the average criminal - "Hey, pal - 60% of the local populace is armed most of the time" - he's going to pick property crimes and those with no victims present than in a place he know folks will be armed.
Would that have protected this church? Unlikely. No one expects a congregation to be armed. But, likewise, gun control wouldn't have deterred a motivated criminal already willing to face armed police and/or the death penalty.
This post was edited on 6/18/15 at 12:00 pm
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:59 am to Pax Regis
quote:
I stated earlier in this thread that the church I attend has men scattered throughout the sanctuary who are concealed carrying. Most are law enforcement or retired military.
no offense, but this has nothing to do with what I was saying. Just because some folks choose to carry doesn't mean we should be pushing the idea of carrying in church.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 12:01 pm to Pax Regis
quote:
the church I attend has men scattered throughout the sanctuary who are concealed carrying.
A lot of reform jewish rabbis, mine included, are moving to this model and encouraging it
Posted on 6/18/15 at 12:01 pm to yellowhammer2098
quote:
1) Guys facebook page was created a month ago and he only has 89 friends, half of which are black and none of them know him in real life.
2) A quote from reddit on the last page or a couple back was analyzing the security footage and comparing it to google maps.
wow. Real smoking guns there
no puns intended
Posted on 6/18/15 at 12:01 pm to StrongSafety
quote:
Most black people knew damn well that he was guilty. However, we are also cognizant how the hands of Justice far too many times jailed innocent men, excessively punished men, etc. they were celebrating a black man circumventing the Justice system with wealth and power
If there is any truth to this it is really sad that people would think this was about a double murderer...not to mention the fact he pretty much tried to live as a white person and shunned his own community. That never seems to matter...only color...yet white people are the racists
Posted on 6/18/15 at 12:02 pm to cas4t
To the contrary at this point I think any church after this that DOESN'T have some kind of security plan is ignoring reality.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 12:02 pm to 14&Counting
quote:
By banning guns...which is what the POTUS wants to do
Wonderful thinking there. Murdering people is already banned yet it happens every day.
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