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re: Changing jobs frequently
Posted on 6/9/22 at 9:41 am to JDPndahizzy
Posted on 6/9/22 at 9:41 am to JDPndahizzy
quote:
Can't disagree with everything you just said. Especially #3 for those that are high achievers.
And ultimately, it’s not a silver bullet.
You will have people who accuse you of favoritism in who you give the extra roles to. In those moments, honesty is crucial. If you don’t think they are a good fit for that role, explain why, and explain how they could improve. If you simply didn’t think they would be interested, say you dropped the ball and that you will keep them in mind in the future, but are there other areas of interest you should know about.
People will argue for standard role promotions. Same thing, explain what you need to see from them to consider them for a promotion. Be prepared for them to say that they haven’t been doing those things only because they don’t already have the role, but once they do, they will. Be prepared to be firm that that isn’t how that works
And the best advice is can give is never to allow comparative negotiation. If you tell someone what you need to see from them to consider them for a promotion or extra role, if they start down the path of “but so and so already has that role, and they don’t do XYZ”, you have to shut it down immediately. Direct them back to what they need to do, and that you won’t discuss the performance of other employees. But you should absolutely use that moment as an opportunity to examine internally whether you have missed something in reviewing that employee that was mentioned.
This post was edited on 6/9/22 at 9:54 am
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Posted on 6/9/22 at 9:46 am to Ole Boy
quote:
Changing jobs frequently
Is this just the norm these days?
Yes.
Anyone who says differently is old and out of touch with how things work right now.
Posted on 6/9/22 at 9:50 am to Ole Boy
Really, the only way to get a real raise (10% or more) these days for 90% of companies out there is to move to another company.
The toxic culture stuff is just a load of BS in most cases. They had unrealistic expectations for a move and found that the new company was the same as the old company.
The toxic culture stuff is just a load of BS in most cases. They had unrealistic expectations for a move and found that the new company was the same as the old company.
Posted on 6/9/22 at 9:56 am to Hulkklogan
quote:
Everyone should be discussing salary with coworkers, it only benefits the company to keep that secret.
I completely agree, but I do see the point about employee performance being a factor that a lot of companies don't address face to face necessarily and instead just handle via pay.
An employee who does what they're assigned when asked but it's the minimum.. is going to be paid less than someone who goes above and beyond what they're asked. But if employee #1 technically does what they need to do, it isn't as far as firing them or telling them to get their shite together. They simply just don't place their job as high in priority as the other employee, which is fine. They are just paid to reflect that.
Posted on 6/9/22 at 9:59 am to Joshjrn
An annual performance based bonus scale helps weed out the tenure based fluff that don’t really contribute jack shite. There are two components, cash and stock. Cash is awarded twice a year. It is computed by taking your level for engineers, 1-10 look up your rating, (meets expectations, exceed expectations, etc) in a table, then multiplying that number by a company multipler, ex 100% if we did well, 125% if we killed it, 80% if we didn't execute well. The result might be 5-25% of your base pay for the six months, or potentially more.
Stock, in the form of RSUs are awarded once a year. The calculation is less transparent but might add 20-100% or more of your base pay. The stock is paid out over four years.
I love, love, love, computed compensation. It eliminates so many unproductive, divisive conversations with your manager. Your manager hands you the piece of paper with numbers computed by HR. You can disagree with the inputs to that calculation, but again those aren't directly controlled by your manager. A good manager will help you work to improve the inputs to the calculation, they aren't an adversary with whom you have a tug-of-war for compensation.
Stock, in the form of RSUs are awarded once a year. The calculation is less transparent but might add 20-100% or more of your base pay. The stock is paid out over four years.
I love, love, love, computed compensation. It eliminates so many unproductive, divisive conversations with your manager. Your manager hands you the piece of paper with numbers computed by HR. You can disagree with the inputs to that calculation, but again those aren't directly controlled by your manager. A good manager will help you work to improve the inputs to the calculation, they aren't an adversary with whom you have a tug-of-war for compensation.
Posted on 6/9/22 at 10:08 am to LouisianaLady
Yeah it's not an easy equation to solve for - comes back to having good management and pay structures to accommodate higher pay for high performers, and honest reviews with employees.
Posted on 6/9/22 at 10:14 am to Breauxsif
quote:
Breauxsif
That sounds like an effective system, but does require the company be publicly traded, and the type of work and structure has to be conducive to that kind of performance review scale. But depending on the application, yeah, I like it.
Posted on 6/9/22 at 10:16 am to Hulkklogan
A lot of companies just have dumb policies. They can't figure out how to pay good employees more without having to give them a bullshiat promotion or title change. Or they won't flex on something simple.
Imagine being to reward someone with a big bump in pay without having to promote them to some bullshite position that doesn't even exist, or even losing their contribution by moving them off what they excel at.
Imagine being to reward someone with a big bump in pay without having to promote them to some bullshite position that doesn't even exist, or even losing their contribution by moving them off what they excel at.
Posted on 6/9/22 at 10:16 am to bishop
quote:
I saw an interesting quote the other day. It read, "People do not quit jobs, they leave toxic cultures."
I wonder if the workplace culture is not what they expected, or it was a bad experience.
This was the case for my last job... but hopefully I will be at the current one until I retire from full-time work.
It was a toxic culture with mediocre pay and no hint of correction coming. Adios.
Posted on 6/9/22 at 10:20 am to bishop
I saw that. People quit working with bad leaders. Also a little bit of unrealistic expectations by the younger workers.
Posted on 6/9/22 at 10:22 am to Sneauxghost
quote:
People quit working with bad leaders.
And the problem is that, as far as I can tell, good leaders/supervisors are the extreme minority
Posted on 6/9/22 at 10:23 am to Ole Boy
quote:
Is this just the norm these days? Looking at Linkedin and most people are averaging a job every couple of years. I would blame it on low paying jobs but most are management positions.
It's not hard to see why. Employees talk, wage ranges get thrown out, and then people whom have been there longer see what the new hires are getting while carrying most of the burden and they leave.
Outside of incredibly talented new hires, employees get extremely irritated when they make 10% less.
Posted on 6/9/22 at 10:25 am to Joshjrn
quote:
And the problem is that, as far as I can tell, good leaders/supervisors are the extreme minority
Professional fields are brutal with this. I'll freely admit I'm not the best CPA in the world, but I can lead a team. You'd be shocked how undervalued that has been at times in my career.
Posted on 6/9/22 at 10:26 am to Ole Boy
quote:
Is this just the norm these days? Looking at Linkedin and most people are averaging a job every couple of years. I would blame it on low paying jobs but most are management positions.
job hopping every 2-3 years in your early career is the most surefire way to beat inflation. If companies want to retain talent they should negotiate better contracts with their customers and invest more capital into paying their employees. If they think of their employees as replaceable, which they may very well be; then you'll just see people bounce around to better opportunities.
Posted on 6/9/22 at 10:29 am to Jcorye1
quote:
Professional fields are brutal with this. I'll freely admit I'm not the best CPA in the world, but I can lead a team. You'd be shocked how undervalued that has been at times in my career.
Peter Principle: most people get promoted to their level of incompetence, because most promotion decisions are made based on performance in their current position, regardless of whether the promoted position has similar responsibilities.
Your story would have shocked me a decade ago. Now? I’m shocked when good-but-not-great performers, but great supervisors/leaders, are promoted over the great performers who couldn’t lead people to save their lives.
And the bitch is that it’s a double whammy. Not only did you just promote a shite supervisor, but you probably took them away from the role they were actually good at.
This post was edited on 6/9/22 at 10:30 am
Posted on 6/9/22 at 10:45 am to Ole Boy
Unfortunately the only way to move up a lot of these places is to move out.
Posted on 6/9/22 at 10:49 am to Ole Boy
I recently left a job because I worked for an arrogant, micromanager who was a know it all. On top of those stellar qualities he also treated every project as if it was an emergency.
He has had 4 engineers leave his group in less than 2 years.
My tenure was just short of one year. The engineer I replaced was there for 9 months. I start a new job on Monday making 10 percent more and working with people I already know and trust.
Life's too short to work for aholes.
He has had 4 engineers leave his group in less than 2 years.
My tenure was just short of one year. The engineer I replaced was there for 9 months. I start a new job on Monday making 10 percent more and working with people I already know and trust.
Life's too short to work for aholes.
Posted on 6/9/22 at 10:50 am to Ole Boy
It’s just about money.
Can’t be bothered by people wanting to make better money for themselves or family
Can’t be bothered by people wanting to make better money for themselves or family
Posted on 6/9/22 at 10:53 am to Joshjrn
This is a big reason I’m not in management.
I’m good at my work but I’m not what I consider a “people person” by any means. I’m happier at my current pay level than getting paid more to do a job that doesn’t fit me because I have a low tolerance for bullshite.
I’m good at my work but I’m not what I consider a “people person” by any means. I’m happier at my current pay level than getting paid more to do a job that doesn’t fit me because I have a low tolerance for bullshite.
Posted on 6/9/22 at 10:53 am to Ole Boy
I’ve had 3 jobs in the last 4 years. I mainly blame covid due to getting laid off from job #2. Almost left for #5 last month but current company countered a number that made me realize I’m valued here.
Every time I jump, it’s a step up in pay.
Why should I sit at my current pay if another company wants to pay me more? That’s stupid. We are all free agents and your employer will replace you in a heartbeat if they have to.
Every time I jump, it’s a step up in pay.
Why should I sit at my current pay if another company wants to pay me more? That’s stupid. We are all free agents and your employer will replace you in a heartbeat if they have to.
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