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re: Andrew Jackson's letter on Secession

Posted on 7/5/25 at 12:19 pm to
Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
79616 posts
Posted on 7/5/25 at 12:19 pm to


Yesterday we celebrated our secession from Great Britain.

Posted by Harry Boutte
Louisiana
Member since Oct 2024
3371 posts
Posted on 7/5/25 at 12:21 pm to
quote:

I must have missed the memo when the Democrats “became” the Republican Party.

The Democratic party was the conservative party, while the Republican party was the liberal party. This changed with the election of 1912 when Wilson took over the mantle of Progressivism from T. Roosevelt.
Posted by OweO
Plaquemine, La
Member since Sep 2009
119870 posts
Posted on 7/5/25 at 12:33 pm to
quote:

I don’t remember exactly but something like 80% of the world’s cotton.


It was closer to 1/3.. So that's about 33%,
Posted by Cuz413
Member since Nov 2007
9833 posts
Posted on 7/5/25 at 2:25 pm to
quote:

several states only ratified the constitution with the expressed right to revoke the joining in the future


Virginia in its ratifying document reserved the right to secede from the Union for whatever reason the people of Virginia saw fit.
Posted by jimmy the leg
Member since Aug 2007
41699 posts
Posted on 7/5/25 at 2:41 pm to
quote:

TutHillTiger


=

Posted by dawgfan24348
Member since Oct 2011
51377 posts
Posted on 7/5/25 at 3:44 pm to
quote:

the dems have fabricated a total lie that they “switched” positions with the GOP in the 1960s, when nothing could be further from the truth

Oh please enlighten me on the truth
Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
3892 posts
Posted on 7/5/25 at 4:21 pm to
Jackson was 100% correct.
Posted by Raoul Stimulato
Hale Bopp Comet
Member since Sep 2022
1983 posts
Posted on 7/5/25 at 4:23 pm to
The usage of seceded and succeeded in this thread

Is essentially the meme of multiple Spider-Mans pointing at one another.
Posted by HueyLongJr
Member since Oct 2007
892 posts
Posted on 7/5/25 at 5:34 pm to
Sorry, dude. The switch started post WWII as the South became less agrarian and more industrialized and the economy became more similar to other regions in the US. As that happened, the GOP began to run more candidates in the South and the electorate was more open to GOP economic messages. Prior to this the GOP didn't bother to even run candidates in numerous elections.

Democrats also began moving left on a wide range of social and economic issues, leaving Southern values behind on religion, abortion, unions as you mention, and other things.

Anytime someone mentions the "Southern strategy", I laugh. It's a term used exclusively by Democrats and liberal historians who hate the GOP. Kind of weird that such an important part of the GOP's success has never actually been promulgated by members of the GOP, nor is there any GOP document that uses the term Southern Strategy.

Here's a book you might enjoy that goes into the broader trends.
End of Southern Exceptionalism

Finally, don't you think it kind of sucks that Democrats and FDR turned a blind eye to Jim Crow to keep Southern Democrats on their side of the ticket? Puts the moral legitimacy of the New Deal on the back of old Jim Crow.
Posted by Lexis Dad
Member since Apr 2025
4422 posts
Posted on 7/5/25 at 7:35 pm to
Posted by HarryBalzack
Member since Oct 2012
16219 posts
Posted on 7/5/25 at 8:34 pm to
quote:

The south made up about 3/4th the income in taxes for the US.
Here's the sources for federal income from 1820 - 2020. The primary sources of revenue during that period were tariffs, taxes on whiskey, and public land sales. None of that was related to the South's production of cotton, except in that southern White farmers may have purchased land from the federal government in order to grow more cotton, but that had squat to do with "the income in taxes for the US."



quote:

I don’t remember exactly but something like 80% of the world’s cotton.
Around 75%, but thanks to Article I, Section 9, Clause 5 of the US Constitution the gov can't tax (levy tariffs on) exports, so there was no "income in taxes for the US" to be made from the export of cotton. They did often exchange the cotton for European manufactured goods (primarily English), but northern politicians wanted to stop this trade and passed tariffs to discourage southern cotton producers from buying European goods, meaning they weren't making much in taxes off this trade in the first place and were actively attempting to stop it, so secession would have had little impact in terms of revenue generation from cotton production.

There is some truth to northern textile manufacturers wanting to retain access to southern cotton, which was cheap and gave them something of a competitive advantage in world markets, but that advantage was based on the efficiencies gained through the use of enslaved labor and northern mill owners were in no hurry to harm slavery, so this whole argument about Yankees wanting to keep milking the southern cotton cow as a motivation for war is really flimsy.
quote:

The southern states were extremely wealthy back then

Yes, they were. Want to guess what their primary asset was that accounted for that wealth?



quote:

when Washington DC decided to up the taxes on agriculture, the southern folks told the north that their mother was a lady of streets and that the northern folks could go F themselves because DC wanted more money and didn’t like that they southern states were quite boujie up in this bitch.
Exactly what "taxes on agriculture" did DC "up"? Andrew Jackson eliminated excise taxes, including the Whiskey Tax, and they weren't reinstituted until the Civil War.

quote:

So, when the south succeeded, the north couldn’t let go of its gold mine and had to fight for that
Just ridiculous/counterfactual/wrong. I love the South and am proud of my Confederate ancestors, but the fact of the matter is that the southern states left the union in order to protect their enslaved property. There's an argument to be had about whether any of this justified waging a war to return them to the union, but it's a moot point because it happened and the Yankees won, whether I like it or not.
Posted by CSATiger
The Battlefield
Member since Aug 2010
6770 posts
Posted on 7/6/25 at 1:39 am to
quote:

At that point they could have left,


so you concede they had the right too, case closed
Posted by magildachunks
Member since Oct 2006
34797 posts
Posted on 7/6/25 at 1:44 am to
quote:

Which means the war probably wouldn't have been over after Appomattox. You would've seen fighting continuing and probably guerrilla groups being formed.


That did happen after Appomattox
Posted by Harry Boutte
Louisiana
Member since Oct 2024
3371 posts
Posted on 7/6/25 at 2:07 am to
quote:

they had the right to

Actually, no. There's no such things as "states' rights".

They didn't have to sign, but they did sign.

And thanks for the source I requested.
Posted by Sofaking2
Member since Apr 2023
18545 posts
Posted on 7/6/25 at 3:12 am to
quote:

MAGA will not like this they are already ready to succeed

Secede you dumbass, lol
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
134985 posts
Posted on 7/6/25 at 5:31 am to
quote:

MAGA will not like this they are already ready to succeed
So is CA ... or so they say.
Posted by Espritdescorps
Member since Nov 2020
2644 posts
Posted on 7/6/25 at 7:28 am to
frick Andrew Jackson.. he did my boy Jean Lafitte dirty
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