re: 57% of Tommy John surgeries in USA performed on 15-19 year olds .

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This is usually my main point in these threads. It’s not “bad” mechanics that are causing more arm problems; it’s actually “good” mechanics. We know how to get young kids to throw really hard. Theres so much data involved that they are being taught how to maximize speed earlier and earlier. It’s not quantity that is causing the uptick. It’s the quality. A kid who is 16, throwing 90 mph 25 times an outing is more damaging than the same kid throwing 85 mph 50 times.

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It's all of it. Cracker jack coaches that are getting kids to throw harder but with poor mechanics, kids throwing entirely too many pitches bc the restrictions are often based on innings and not a pitch count, and kids just throwing harder at a young age (even with good mechanics and strict pitch count) that puts strain on their arm before it's fully developed. Re pitch counts: kids are also pitching for their travel team all weekend then jumping right back on the mound during the week for their rec ball team. No matter how good the restrictions are for either, or how good your mechanics are, your pitch count starts at 0 when you cross over. And, you just can't develop a kid enough to handle that workload and velocity - they're kids. You also see way more kids playing pitcher and catcher now. So, they throw their limit on the mound and throw every pitch before, after, and in between back to the other pitchers.

Something else I have no proof of but worth considering: the portable mounds so often used now are way higher than the natural mounds. If a kid's lower half isn't developed, the whip they can create is just too much to handle. You can literally throw all arm off those sky scraper mounds. Yes, I know you probably tore your arm up on natural but TJ was more the exception than it is the norm now.

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Comes with being an athlete. I had ACL repair surgery at 17. Don’t be soft

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Uh, no. 17 year olds should not be getting ACL surgery or Tommy John. This is not okay and should not ever be acceptable practice.

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This is not really a symptom of travel ball as much as it is a symptom of technological advances at the MLB and college level that have trickled down into youth baseball that have pushed athletes beyond physical limitations.

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Might break a few braxton’s dads hearts but let you in on a little secret. If the kid wasn’t a killer at 8 years old…. He’s not going to be at 16 with TJ surgery lol. GTFO. The guys I knew that went on to actually make money playing a sport were animals at an early age. Athletic and HATED to lose. And there’s only a handful of them and most never reached past AA or the Canadian football league. Lol TJ surgery or not make sure Braxton finishes up that engineering degree.

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Well that’s insane. I’m familiar with 2Dsports and their rules. And they stick to pitch count.

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If I remember correctly, 2D is more like rec ball rules for the younger ages. Pitch count instead of inning count, no leads, etc. I'm not totally opposed to that but certain areas are more heavy on Utrip & OTC so it just kinda comes with the territory. I work kids on both sets of rules, but my kids mainly play the open style. I also pay particular attention to pitch counts, even if it's not the rule. I'm rarely running a kid back out there for another inning after 30+ pitches in 1 inning, and I get antsy when a kid exceeds 60 in a game. I almost never pitch kids 2 days in a row, unless day 1 was a particularly non-stressful outing (kind of a bullpen day). It can get ugly, you need alot of pitchers just to keep games reasonably close when other coaches are blowing kids up for 70+ each day, but winning is like 1C on my list, preceded by 1A health 1B development. 2A is fun, the kids will have fun if they're healthy, getting better, and winning some.

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People have this weird idea that every travel ball parent is primarily motivated by the prospect of their kid playing in the MLB. That's simply not true. 95% of travel ball parents want to give their kid the opportunity to do something they enjoy doing with friends and provide an opportunity for their kid to make their HS team. Most understand that their kid will never play beyond HS.

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It's not really the parents these days fault that this is the crappy system that has taken over the country. Travel ball is terrible for our kids long term outside of a very select elite minority and even them other factors with the select model in baseball and AAU basketball outside of the actual game are harming our kids mentally in a big way.

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Travel ball is terrible for our kids long term outside of a very select elite minority

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How so?

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Parents are mostly stupid.

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The system puts parents in a tough spot if they think it would be valuable (from a personal development perspective) for their son to be on the high school baseball team.

Yes, there are still high schools where any decent ball player can make the team, but there are also plenty who are cutting kids every year. I’m not talking about cutting kids who barely played rec and are just trying to have an activity. I’m talking about rec all-stars and AA level “travel ball” kids. Not saying those are elite players, but I am saying they know how to play the game and are serious about baseball.

So parents at those schools either have to see early on that their kid doesn’t have the athletic ability to make that high school team (and who wants to make that judgment when their kid hasn’t even hit puberty yet) and get them into other sports more seriously, or they have to roll the dice and invest in travel ball, private coaching, etc just to try to keep up.

The real damned thing about it is that late bloomers are often screwed by this, whereas in different times if a kid was really into baseball but grew and got stronger a couple years late, he was on the team and could flourish at the right time.

Sliders.

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How so?

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I should have said the "select model" but I'll expand. The select model goes by age. 12u 13u 14u and so on and so forth so your kid is most likely gonna play on a team with only kids their age against only kids their age. That in combination with the ability to jump teams easily if you aren't getting what you want creates kids that when they get to HS level sports have never had to sit the bench in their life. A good percentage of kids quit in their first 2 years of HS sports because they think they should play even though it's hard for a 14 year old to compete with an 18 year old for playing time. They've never learned that dynamic because the select model and the money making nature of the model means plenty of teams and plenty of playing time even if you may not be good enough to be a starter for a legit team.

Another major issue is the fact that most of these teams will play 4-8 games over the course of a weekend and only practice maybe once a week. The games end up not meaning as much to the kids because they know they have 4 more this weekend and if they lose out we got 6 more next weekend. It creates kids that don't know how to compete every single play or every single pitch because it's impossible to lock in and focus and give your best for 40 innings or 24 quarters in a weekend. Also the lack of practices creates a shocking experience when they get to HS. Now you practice bare minimum once or twice for every game you play no matter the sport. They aren't ready for this and they don't know how to practice the right way to begin with because over the course of a calendar year with their select team they had 12 practices but played in 65 games.

It also creates issues with the kids and their HS coaches. They don't know what actual coaching looks like because Braxten's Dad just had us hit in the cage and take grounders for the last 10 years or Michaels dad had us do layup line and play full court at practice for the last 10 years. When they get to HS and have to do conditioning, lift weights, and practices involving real work. Kids haven't been prepared for this at all so they get discouraged. "He's too hard on me." "The game isn't fun anymore" "Coach X took the love of the game from me".

TLDR,

The select model doesn't prepare the kids for HS or college as well as we think because the model is nothing like HS or college.