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re: 57% of Tommy John surgeries in USA performed on 15-19 year olds .

Posted on 1/11/24 at 10:49 am to
Posted by scottydoesntknow
Member since Nov 2023
2093 posts
Posted on 1/11/24 at 10:49 am to
quote:

Uh, no. 17 year olds should not be getting ACL surgery or Tommy John. This is not okay and should not ever be acceptable practice.


The ACL will not heal itself naturally.
Posted by PureBlood
The Motherland
Member since Oct 2021
3956 posts
Posted on 1/11/24 at 11:29 am to
quote:

57% of Tommy John surgeries in USA performed on 15-19 year olds .




Shut it down! Two weeks to flatten the curve!
Posted by tigerclaws15
Member since Jan 2007
3482 posts
Posted on 1/11/24 at 12:26 pm to
quote:

throwing his curveball.


Nothing to do with it. The has been proven time and time again and old people still don’t want to let this argument go
Posted by tigerfoot
Alexandria
Member since Sep 2006
56441 posts
Posted on 1/11/24 at 12:42 pm to
quote:

The AA teams are riding pitchers out to 150+ pitches in a weekend. I've seen a kid pitch complete games both saturday and sunday and also do relief. Not low scoring games either. He gave up 30 runs at least. lol rip that kid's future.
didn’t happen

My kid played a lot from 7-12. Once he started growing he took much more time off. People act as if he quit playing. But his arm is stronger his hitting metrics increased. His overall athleticism skyrocketed by working out hard and playing football

This year round stuff is crazy. If he develops and enjoys it and has a chance at all to play further he can play summers again. Or we can go fishing. Up to him

But I saw a lot of decent ball players play all summer. Going to showcases with 72 mph arms, 8 second sixties and average EV. I don’t get it.

But to each his own.
Posted by tigerfoot
Alexandria
Member since Sep 2006
56441 posts
Posted on 1/11/24 at 12:47 pm to
quote:

If the kid wasn’t a killer at 8 years old…. He’s not going to be at 16 with TJ surgery lol. GTFO. The guys I knew that went on to actually make money playing a sport were animals at an early age. Athletic and HATED to lose.
the opposite is my experience

The early blooming or favorable birthday beasts all got passed by later developing dudes with good work ethics.

I was one that got passed. I was the same size at 14 that I was at 17.

Posted by choupiquesushi
yaton rouge
Member since Jun 2006
30684 posts
Posted on 1/11/24 at 12:53 pm to
Well there are a lot more 15 to 19 year olds playing baseball than 19+
Posted by UpToPar
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
22159 posts
Posted on 1/11/24 at 1:17 pm to
quote:

TLDR,

The select model doesn't prepare the kids for HS or college as well as we think because the model is nothing like HS or college.


But what's the alternative? There's two options that are available in most communities: rec ball and travel ball. Kids that end up playing for their HS teams aren't sitting the bench in rec ball either, and rec ball is, in most places, 2 games and 1 practice per week.

The "select model" isn't perfect by any means. And it is certainly much different than HS sports, but there currently isn't a model out there that resembles HS sports. So I'm not really sure what the alternative is.
Posted by UpToPar
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
22159 posts
Posted on 1/11/24 at 1:20 pm to
quote:

the opposite is my experience

The early blooming or favorable birthday beasts all got passed by later developing dudes with good work ethics.


Yep. Some kids develop hand eye coordination at an earlier age than others. Those kids dominate in the first few years (6-8). Athleticism dominates for the next few years (9-12). Fundamentals really start to take over 12+. Obviously, a kid with freak athleticism has a little more room for error when it comes to fundamentals.
Posted by Earnest_P
Member since Aug 2021
3552 posts
Posted on 1/11/24 at 1:28 pm to
quote:

So I'm not really sure what the alternative


The alternative is for people to slow down and relax. If a kid has the ability to play college ball and more, that will show by the time he’s 18 whether or not he plays travel ball, so what are we really accomplishing by having kids of all ability levels playing ball twice or three times more than kids used to?

What we are accomplishing is raising the level of play in high school baseball.
But at what cost?
Posted by redfishfan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2015
4425 posts
Posted on 1/11/24 at 1:29 pm to
quote:

But what's the alternative? There's two options that are available in most communities: rec ball and travel ball. Kids that end up playing for their HS teams aren't sitting the bench in rec ball either, and rec ball is, in most places, 2 games and 1 practice per week.

The "select model" isn't perfect by any means. And it is certainly much different than HS sports, but there currently isn't a model out there that resembles HS sports. So I'm not really sure what the alternative is.


I agree with you that currently there isn't a good alternative. The select model could easily be tweaked to benefit the kids but it's not good for the bottom line of the parks or the coaches so it won't change. The current model has us falling behind Europe in basketball and the Dominican and other countries like that in baseball but we keep it up.
Posted by UpToPar
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
22159 posts
Posted on 1/11/24 at 1:57 pm to
quote:

I agree with you that currently there isn't a good alternative. The select model could easily be tweaked to benefit the kids but it's not good for the bottom line of the parks or the coaches so it won't change. The current model has us falling behind Europe in basketball and the Dominican and other countries like that in baseball but we keep it up.


I'm not very familiar with AAU basketball. I agree that travel baseball is 100% designed to financially benefit the "academies." But if you want to play the game against good competition, it's the only option.
Posted by redfishfan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2015
4425 posts
Posted on 1/11/24 at 2:12 pm to
quote:

But if you want to play the game against good competition, it's the only option.


I agree. It sucks for modern day parents. They are basically forced into a system that is helping their kids in ways but hurting them in others because as adults we are too worried about money and status and not worried enough about the actual development of our kids.
Posted by Earnest_P
Member since Aug 2021
3552 posts
Posted on 1/11/24 at 2:43 pm to
We aren’t even talking about how the deterioration of local rec sports deprived kids and the community of healthy activities and civic opportunities.
Posted by Tiger Ike
SW Louisiana
Member since Aug 2013
1445 posts
Posted on 1/11/24 at 3:07 pm to
I just skimmed through 5 pages and 777 has yet to jump in on this. These travel ball discussions are losing their juice.
Posted by BeepNode
Lafayette
Member since Feb 2014
10005 posts
Posted on 1/11/24 at 3:09 pm to
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/23/24 at 11:08 am
Posted by Tiger Ike
SW Louisiana
Member since Aug 2013
1445 posts
Posted on 1/11/24 at 3:16 pm to
quote:

When he was 9 he hit a home run off my brother, who was 12 at the time and was no slouch.


Went yard off the bull....
Posted by TigerMan327
Elsewhere
Member since Feb 2011
5189 posts
Posted on 1/11/24 at 3:20 pm to
quote:

57% of Tommy John surgeries in USA performed on 15-19 year olds .



That's crazy. It's almost like 99% of all athletes are most active between those ages. Most will never play any type of team sport in their lives as soon as they leave high school.
Posted by DownshiftAndFloorIt
Here
Member since Jan 2011
66763 posts
Posted on 1/11/24 at 3:23 pm to
Right. Hard work is important, but not as a kid and not even as a high school player. If you're major league material, you WILL be the best player on the high school team with very little effort and the scouts are going to notice it. If travel ball, extra coaching sessions etc etc are needed to get you playing time, you're not going to play D1 ball much less sniff the show.

You can't coach genetics or athleticism. You either have the secret sauce or you don't and travel ball isn't going to increase your chances with anything anywhere in life other than the high school rooster.
Posted by Penrod
Member since Jan 2011
39574 posts
Posted on 1/11/24 at 4:08 pm to
The vast majority of pitchers are 15-19. I’m surprised it’s not more than 57%.
Posted by Lithium
Member since Dec 2004
62047 posts
Posted on 1/11/24 at 4:21 pm to
And they get sent home on opioids which is not good
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