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Started By
Message
re: Let it be known...This is the true face of the man that murdered a beloved Saint
Posted on 4/11/16 at 11:20 am to NoSaint
Posted on 4/11/16 at 11:20 am to NoSaint
quote:
hayes can say a lot of things. me saying i have a gun doesnt mean you can unload yours into me. it may make him slightly more sympathetic though and take life in prison off the table.
you getting into a major argument with me, then mentioning you have a weapon and turning into your vehicle like you're going to get it is enough to get my charges lowered or get off entirely.
3
Posted on 4/11/16 at 11:30 am to Zach Lee To Amp Hill
quote:
getting into a major argument with me, then mentioning you have a weapon and turning into your vehicle like you're going to get it is enough to get my charges lowered or get off entirely
this plus if smith comes back with alcohol or drugs in his system will be a huge part in this case. Like i mentioned earlier, i wouldnt be surprised if charges reduced to manslaughter if this happend
Posted on 4/11/16 at 11:31 am to Zach Lee To Amp Hill
quote:
get my charges lowered or get off entirely.
i do not think saying "i have a gun" and turning to your car is enough to totally let you walk in just about any location or with pretty much any jury pool. especially if the gun was in a glove compartment on the otherside of the car and never visible, for instance (as we would presume from it not being immediately found, but who knows.... maybe the wife stashed it while waiting for police).
ill agree theres a good chance it gets him away from life in prison potentially.
but of course theres a ton left to come out.
Posted on 4/11/16 at 11:31 am to Zach Lee To Amp Hill
quote:
turning into your vehicle like you're going to get it is enough to get my charges lowered or get off entirely.
That is not necessarily true at all.
Posted on 4/11/16 at 11:32 am to Fun Bunch
quote:But it COULD be true. Nobody knows what happened yet. However, it appears as the initial story of cold blooded killing over nothing but road rage is not what happened
That is not necessarily true at all.
Posted on 4/11/16 at 11:35 am to lsupride87
quote:
But it COULD be true
that declaring "i have a gun" is enough to have a guy unload on you and you walk completely clean is probably not true.
quote:
Nobody knows what happened yet
this is true, and its possible smith had it and it was visible, but i think we wouldve heard that by now, though we didnt hear the i have a gun part til later than i expected. it seems he likely said it verbally but not likely there was an IMMEDIATE threat that would have a guy walk totally free. who knows though - we are in the territory where fine points matter and we do not know those yet.
This post was edited on 4/11/16 at 11:37 am
Posted on 4/11/16 at 11:40 am to NoSaint
Saying you have a gun and then unloading on that person isn't enough to get off. Not even close.
There has to be:
1) a reasonable belief of imminent danger of losing his life
and
2) The killing has to be necessary to save himself from that danger.
We don't know all of the facts yet, not even close. But judging from what we know, it doesn't seem like he can prove 2.
There has to be:
1) a reasonable belief of imminent danger of losing his life
and
2) The killing has to be necessary to save himself from that danger.
We don't know all of the facts yet, not even close. But judging from what we know, it doesn't seem like he can prove 2.
This post was edited on 4/11/16 at 11:41 am
Posted on 4/11/16 at 11:40 am to NoSaint
quote:
have a guy unload on you
ive seen this posted more than once. Why does it matter if he shot once or 15 times. If you shoot, you shoot to kill. You shoot to stop the threat. You are taught if you carry, that if you ever have to use it to defend yourself, empty the magazine. It is irrelevant how many times he shot.
Posted on 4/11/16 at 11:40 am to oleyeller
That isn't the point.
Posted on 4/11/16 at 11:47 am to oleyeller
quote:
You are taught if you carry, that if you ever have to use it to defend yourself, empty the magazine.
You absolutely just created this theory in your head. Shoot to kill does not mean emptying magazine.
Posted on 4/11/16 at 11:49 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Saying you have a gun and then unloading on that person isn't enough to get off. Not even close.
but if he says he has a gun, gets to his car and reaches for it(thus being shot in the back), i think he would have grounds to shoot Smith. I think that is reason to believe your life may be in danger.
Posted on 4/11/16 at 11:51 am to Chad504boy
quote:
You absolutely just created this theory in your head. Shoot to kill does not mean emptying magazine
okay
Posted on 4/11/16 at 11:55 am to Lester Earl
quote:
but if he says he has a gun, gets to his car and reaches for it(thus being shot in the back), i think he would have grounds to shoot Smith. I think that is reason to believe your life may be in danger.
Again, not necessarily. Could he escape from the situation? Back away? Get in his car and leave? Is the threat credible?
Posted on 4/11/16 at 11:59 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Could he escape from the situation? Back away? Get in his car and leave?
Im not a lawyer and dont pretend to be, but where does the stand your ground law come into place?
my concealed weapons teacher says that you do not have to flee if you have reason to be there.
quote:
Is the threat credible?
seemed to be heated enough from both of the eye witness accounts that Ive heard that the threat would indeed have been credible. Esp if he made a move to go back to his car to retrieve a gun.
A lot of speculation still, as the facts slowly come out. But still .
Posted on 4/11/16 at 12:03 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Could he escape from the situation? Back away? Get in his car and leave? Is the threat credible?
wasn't Hayes car pushed up into the back of Smith's? I know the pics showed it wasn't a very bad accident but I'd say that running to your car doesn't mean much when your car is touching the other guy's.
it's not like he could drive forward and the streets in that area are narrow and one way. he could easily argue he was essentially trapped.
Posted on 4/11/16 at 12:07 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Im not a lawyer and dont pretend to be, but where does the stand your ground law come into place?
my concealed weapons teacher says that you do not have to flee if you have reason to be there.
If the person is "an aggressor" or "brings on the difficulty" they cannot use Stand your Ground.
There also has to be a real threat, or a reasonable perception of one.
And that doesn't even come close to absolving him. It just means the jury wouldn't consider the possibility of retreat against him.
You also have to consider that Smith walked away from the argument towards his vehicle. This gives the possibility of retreat and possibly takes away "stand your ground".
This post was edited on 4/11/16 at 12:09 pm
Posted on 4/11/16 at 12:08 pm to Zach Lee To Amp Hill
quote:
wasn't Hayes car pushed up into the back of Smith's? I know the pics showed it wasn't a very bad accident but I'd say that running to your car doesn't mean much when your car is touching the other guy's.
it's not like he could drive forward and the streets in that area are narrow and one way. he could easily argue he was essentially trapped.
The argument can be made but its not a good one.
Posted on 4/11/16 at 12:11 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
If the person is "an aggressor" or "brings on the difficulty" they cannot use Stand your Ground.
that is the next big question.
quote:
You also have to consider that Smith walked away from the argument towards his vehicle. This gives the possibility of retreat and possibly takes away "stand your ground".
but if he says I have a gun too, and retreats to get it. He's not exactly dissolving the situation. By both accounts he was irate as well.
Posted on 4/11/16 at 12:21 pm to Lester Earl
more facts will have to come out.if it is learned that they(either will or the impala) hit and run this guys truck, then he chases them and smith slams on his brakes and forces the collision. smith then gets out and starts a verbal altercation and the guy says I have a gun chill out, then will says I have a gun also and then enters his truck to retrieve it, this guy gets off.
Posted on 4/11/16 at 12:24 pm to diat150
Posted in other thread
And also, I'm sure cops did diligence in finding out what Mrs. Smith side of story was prior to booking Hayes w 2nd degree murder
And also, I'm sure cops did diligence in finding out what Mrs. Smith side of story was prior to booking Hayes w 2nd degree murder
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