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re: Pels/Cavs discuss Collin Sexton trade
Posted on 7/13/21 at 7:21 am to brmark70816
Posted on 7/13/21 at 7:21 am to brmark70816
There is truth in that . On the flip side, young players that are in winning situations don’t become available at reasonable cost . Sexton is seemingly a pretty mature kid with good intangibles . He was on JJs during the season and was a good interview if you haven’t seen it .
My biggest concern with him is the ball dominance . He was ball dominant at AL and has been ball dominant in CLE. Seeing the floor and keeping other guys involved typically isn’t just a switch that can be flipped . Second concern is he is not a natural shooter from 3. Somewhat slow release and not much elevation on the Jump shot . However , he’s short a pretty good percentage. He’s not a guy that will have a ton of gravity ... at least not yet .
With that said , talent accumulation is the goal for this team this summer . Start building something that shows Zion you care about winning . If the price is fair, I have no issue making the move for him.
My biggest concern with him is the ball dominance . He was ball dominant at AL and has been ball dominant in CLE. Seeing the floor and keeping other guys involved typically isn’t just a switch that can be flipped . Second concern is he is not a natural shooter from 3. Somewhat slow release and not much elevation on the Jump shot . However , he’s short a pretty good percentage. He’s not a guy that will have a ton of gravity ... at least not yet .
With that said , talent accumulation is the goal for this team this summer . Start building something that shows Zion you care about winning . If the price is fair, I have no issue making the move for him.
1
Posted on 7/13/21 at 8:03 am to AboveTheRim
If we get Sexton that means Ball is gone right?
also what does Sexton look like in a Point Zion offense?
also what does Sexton look like in a Point Zion offense?
Posted on 7/13/21 at 8:09 am to jmcwhrter
I actually think Ball and Sexton could work together. Let Sexton run the point and move Ball to SG. Sexton gives you a perimeter threat that can drive and finish. Ball gives you a bigger guard that should be able to defend and has proven proficient at knocking down spot up 3s. Let Ingram man the wing, and all of a sudden, Zion has 3 above average shooters surrounding him in crunch time.
Now, this team will need to score 120 a game, cause they are going to be hot garbage on defense, but I do think there is a fit there.
Now, this team will need to score 120 a game, cause they are going to be hot garbage on defense, but I do think there is a fit there.
Posted on 7/13/21 at 8:18 am to saints5021
quote:
Ball gives you a bigger guard that should be able to defend
One of the root causes of why the defense was so bad last year was Lonzo's complete refusal/inability to fight through picks. All you had to do was run a pick and roll and that bigger guard causing the little guard problems was out of the way. That's a big part of why so many little guys lit the Pels up for 40+ last year.
Lonzo just can't be the guy we ask to lead the perimiter defense. It's not what he's good at, and what he's shown should give you zero hope that he will get better at it.
With who we have on the roster NAW is the one that can bring the best 2 way play. He may not be a lock down defender, but he's a pesky defender with long arms that will get in the way at the point of attack and fights through screens to try and stay in the play.
If you bring in Sexton, Lonzo needs to go for defense and money reasons.
Posted on 7/13/21 at 8:25 am to jmcwhrter
quote:I think he can play well off-ball too, due to his shooting. He shared the court with Garland this season, who is more of a typical point guard.
also what does Sexton look like in a Point Zion offense?
quote:Maybe, but I can also see a decent fit there if Ball is "okay" with his off-ball role.
If we get Sexton that means Ball is gone right?
Posted on 7/13/21 at 8:26 am to TigerinATL
quote:
If you bring in Sexton, Lonzo needs to go for defense and money reasons.
I would have thought this would be the main factor anyway..? Can we afford both?
Also previous poster mentioned Sexton as primary ballhandler and kicking out to Lonzo, but does that still happen in a Point Zion offense?
Posted on 7/13/21 at 8:37 am to jmcwhrter
quote:
I would have thought this would be the main factor anyway..? Can we afford both?
Long term no. Once Sexton and Zion gets paid you'd have 4 guys making $20 or more. Short term maybe, it depends on if you could dump both Bledsoe and Adams without taking much back.
Posted on 7/13/21 at 8:38 am to TigerinATL
I think you keep Lonzo purely because he's a potential asset.
Find out if he works long term, if not the way he plays there's teams who will take him on.
We're at the point of talent acquisition, losing Lonzo isn't worthwhile when we can't bring in a better option.
Find out if he works long term, if not the way he plays there's teams who will take him on.
We're at the point of talent acquisition, losing Lonzo isn't worthwhile when we can't bring in a better option.
Posted on 7/13/21 at 8:45 am to htran90
quote:
I think you keep Lonzo purely because he's a potential asset.
If he were a potential asset he'd be worth trading now. Teams regularly make this mistake with guys. They keep a player because they disagree with the market and in the end they trade them for the same or less years later because the market value is the value that matters.
quote:
losing Lonzo isn't worthwhile when we can't bring in a better option.
I don't like that as a reason to keep Lonzo because:
1) Keeping Lonzo while acquiring another starting caliber guard stunts NAW's development.
2) You can still S&T Lonzo, and I'd say it's at least 80% that you won't get any more in a trade 3 years from now for Lonzo than you will now.
If you can't find a trade for a guard and start NAW next to Lonzo I'm ok keeping him. But NAW should be starting next season, the Pels should be looking to bring in someone they like better than Lonzo.
This post was edited on 7/13/21 at 8:47 am
Posted on 7/13/21 at 8:49 am to TigerinATL
quote:
One of the root causes of why the defense was so bad last year was Lonzo's complete refusal/inability to fight through picks. All you had to do was run a pick and roll and that bigger guard causing the little guard problems was out of the way. That's a big part of why so many little guys lit the Pels up for 40+ last year.
Lonzo just can't be the guy we ask to lead the perimiter defense. It's not what he's good at, and what he's shown should give you zero hope that he will get better at it.
WHile i obviously agree with all of that since i pointed out Lonzo's inability to get through screens a long time ago, i think another large part of the problem was Adams sagging off in the lane and defending no one most of the time.
Adams man sets the pick, Lonzo gets stonewalled by the pick as if the perfect pick is set on him every single time, and then Adams has to play 2 on 1 and he simply isn't good enough at defending the perimeter so he sags off and lets the guard pretty much do what he wants.
Jax has got to step up and put a stop to that.
Lonzo isn't a PG, and won't be in the future. He's a SG who's good at facilitating in transition. NAW is a better SG, on both ends of the court than Lonzo, and that is why Lonzo shouldn't be resigned.
Posted on 7/13/21 at 8:52 am to jmcwhrter
quote:
also what does Sexton look like in a Point Zion offense?
I think having a Guard that teams fear can score off the dribble, from 3, off ball...can get his own shot, etc will help Point Zion, and take some pressure off of it.
Posted on 7/13/21 at 8:55 am to Fun Bunch
I think adding a guard like Sexton than can attack the rim is a perfect fit. I think Sexton is trending up as a good young player and would be a great fit next to Zion and BI
Posted on 7/13/21 at 8:57 am to 3PieceSpicy
quote:
Oh the irony…
Also, if this was actually true you’d be pulling for Cp3 and Monty over Jrue and Bud lol.
High character too. Because CP3 is a dirty player.
quote:
The problem with discussing players and all of that with you is you usually just simply come in with an emotional take.
Oh the irony.
You were talking about heart and grit with Sexton.
Sexton is so selfish that’s in the scouting report. His teammates, including those who’ve been on title teams, hate playing with him. Opponents laugh at the Cavs because of that.
Everything I’ve said is correct.
quote:
The issue is, you think you are always right no matter what the topic is and you have the inability to see things from any other standpoint other than your own initial narrow standpoint.
Relax Ginsburg, it’s not that my mind can’t be changed, it just that you don’t say anything of value.
Posted on 7/13/21 at 9:01 am to smoke225
quote:
I think Sexton is trending up as a good young player and would be a great fit next to Zion and BI
Sexton is very available because the Cavs have seen enough of him to know that they don’t want to pay him.
A franchise desperately looking for a star doesn’t believe he is one.
They kept Love around for culture reasons, and the dude literally just passes it to other teams because Sexton is so frustrating to play with.
Posted on 7/13/21 at 9:06 am to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:Not sure it's ever a good idea to put all your trust in the Cavs organization's assessment of a player.
Sexton is very available because the Cavs have seen enough of him to know that they don’t want to pay him.
A franchise desperately looking for a star doesn’t believe he is one.
Posted on 7/13/21 at 9:08 am to brmark70816
quote:What? Do you read what you write? Do you know that the best players every year in the draft go to the worst teams? They do not place the best players on winning teams automatically.
This is my thing. Good players in the NBA usually do not play for losing teams. Our core would be 4 guys (Ball, Zion, Ingram and Sexton) that have never played on a team with a winning record..
Posted on 7/13/21 at 9:12 am to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
They kept Love around for culture reasons, and the dude literally just passes it to other teams because Sexton is so frustrating to play with.
ok. So i watched a clip of Sexton single handedly beating the Nets with their big 3 playing, and Love was going crazy the entire time cheering for Sexton, enough so that he was all over the highlight reel even though he didn't even play. So based on this one clip i've seen of Sexton, i assess that Love loves Sexton.
That right there is what you are doing based on one clip you saw from ESPN from one game of Sexton's 3 year career that Love doesnt' like him.
I don't understand why we just automatically side with Kevin Love. Maybe Sexton is fed up with Love not giving a shite, and always being hurt. Maybe Sexton is the one that wants to win, while Love is content sitting back and "stealing $120M" from the Cavs, and Sexton has a problem with that, and Love doesn't like that Sexton feels that way. No one has ever said Sexton doesnt' give it his all out there. I'll take a guy like that over the latter any day.
This post was edited on 7/13/21 at 9:18 am
Posted on 7/13/21 at 9:18 am to TeddyPadillac
KD, Westbrook and Harden all had never played on a winning team until the Thunder grew into a contender. It is no like our core has been losing in the NBA for 10 years
Posted on 7/13/21 at 9:21 am to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
Sexton is very available because the Cavs have seen enough of him to know that they don’t want to pay him.
A franchise desperately looking for a star doesn’t believe he is one.
They kept Love around for culture reasons, and the dude literally just passes it to other teams because Sexton is so frustrating to play with.
They kept Love around because Lebron ditched them for a 2nd time and they didn't want it to look like all the good players were leaving and they would be returning to the outhouse. Counting on a guy who's team averages like 27 wins when he's the veteran leader/best player but sits out half of every season as your culture builder is pretty dumb.
This post was edited on 7/13/21 at 9:33 am
Posted on 7/13/21 at 9:25 am to jmcwhrter
If we are shipping out Bledsoe and Kira in this deal, then we have Sexton and NAW as our only guards (not counting Hart) if we don't bring back Lonzo, so I definitely think we bring back Lonzo.
We obviously need three quality guards.
We obviously need three quality guards.
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