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Maybe we just weren't as good as we thought we were?
Posted on 2/1/23 at 9:20 am
Posted on 2/1/23 at 9:20 am
A good team, even missing their best player, with two other All-Star Caliber players, isn't THIS bad usually. They don't lose 3-17 and 9 straight usually, and look really bad at times doing it.
Yes we were missing BI for many of them, but he's back and has been for a few games. Still lost. We've had CJ for most of them. Still lost.
We crowed about our Depth a lot, but we also knew our shooting was suspect and our rim protection was trash, and teams are just leveling us in both areas.
Zion is THAT good that he made that much of a difference. But the worry for me now is that we are so down, are getting exposed so badly, that even with Zion we won't be the team we were pre-Hammy.
Let's hope this is just a little funk and we get out of it.
Yes we were missing BI for many of them, but he's back and has been for a few games. Still lost. We've had CJ for most of them. Still lost.
We crowed about our Depth a lot, but we also knew our shooting was suspect and our rim protection was trash, and teams are just leveling us in both areas.
Zion is THAT good that he made that much of a difference. But the worry for me now is that we are so down, are getting exposed so badly, that even with Zion we won't be the team we were pre-Hammy.
Let's hope this is just a little funk and we get out of it.
Posted on 2/1/23 at 9:21 am to Fun Bunch
Depends on how good you thought we were. I thought we were a team built to be a solid playoff team that could compete for a Top 4 seed. I still believe we are that. If you thought we were ready to compete for the #1 seed and a title, then I'd say we're not as good as believed.
Posted on 2/1/23 at 9:24 am to Fun Bunch
No we are good, its just a combination of the injuries and the time they came. We are currently in the toughest stretch of games we have for the season, after these next couple games we have alot of easy games coming up.
Posted on 2/1/23 at 9:26 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
But the worry for me now is that we are so down, are getting exposed so badly, that even with Zion we won't be the team we were pre-Hammy.
When you say we, you mean you or the team?
You are in your feels this morning huh bunch
Posted on 2/1/23 at 9:28 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Maybe we just weren't as good as we thought we were?
I think a few things are different.
- Jose and Larry played huge roles in the good start but got hurt and haven't been the same since.
- CJ and JV haven't been good enough to carry the offense as the #1 and #2 options. In some ways you shouldn't expect them to be, but you'd expect them to be enough on some nights at least.
- Willie seems as hyper-focused on defense to the detriment of the offense as Stan Van Gundy, and that's not working out well without Zion. And as with SVG, a big part of the problem with the defense is the offense, and if you would do things scheme and rotation-wise to fix the offense, you might fix the defense at the same time.
This post was edited on 2/1/23 at 9:48 am
Posted on 2/1/23 at 9:40 am to TigerinATL
I think it’s clear that we are a very good team when healthy but that most of our pieces: Herb, Trey, Jose, Nance, etc were elevated by Zion a lot. Right now it’s clear that Zion was carrying this team though that stretch.
Val and CJ are good. I’m not worried about them given that they’ve had to carry the offense the entire time. I am feeling like we’d be better off getting rid of Jonas and just going pure defense at center if Willie refuses to run plays through him.
The thing that’s really scaring me is the thought that Willie can’t fix the offense. He’s always been defense first and I’m really not convinced that he can fix this offense without the crutch of Zion. He relies a lot on CJ, Zion and BI to create. It’s clear he can’t create plays to generate consistent offense for players who can’t get their own shot.
Val and CJ are good. I’m not worried about them given that they’ve had to carry the offense the entire time. I am feeling like we’d be better off getting rid of Jonas and just going pure defense at center if Willie refuses to run plays through him.
quote:
Willie seems as hyper-focused on defense to the detriment of the offense as Stan Van Gundy, and that's not working out well without Zion. And as with SVG, a big part of the problem with the defense is the offense, and if you would do things scheme and rotation-wise to fix the offense, you might fix the defense at the same time.
The thing that’s really scaring me is the thought that Willie can’t fix the offense. He’s always been defense first and I’m really not convinced that he can fix this offense without the crutch of Zion. He relies a lot on CJ, Zion and BI to create. It’s clear he can’t create plays to generate consistent offense for players who can’t get their own shot.
Posted on 2/1/23 at 9:46 am to Fun Bunch
When Zion is on the court, we play to the equivalent of the best team in the NBA.
When Zion is off the court, we play to the equivalent of the 25th best team in the NBA.
The biggest issue with the above...Zion has played 38% of our team's minutes this season.
When Zion is off the court, we play to the equivalent of the 25th best team in the NBA.
The biggest issue with the above...Zion has played 38% of our team's minutes this season.
Posted on 2/1/23 at 9:50 am to higgsBoson
quote:
The thing that’s really scaring me is the thought that Willie can’t fix the offense. He’s always been defense first and I’m really not convinced that he can fix this offense without the crutch of Zion. He relies a lot on CJ, Zion and BI to create. It’s clear he can’t create plays to generate consistent offense for players who can’t get their own shot.
Players are not making shots, thats the offensive problem. We need another consistent scorer, we cannot have Herb only contributing offensively once every 20 games, Trey and Jose going in and out of slumps, Dyson passing up open shots, all while we’re missing our best scorer.
Posted on 2/1/23 at 10:04 am to Soggymoss
quote:
Players are not making shots, thats the offensive problem. We need another consistent scorer, we cannot have Herb only contributing offensively once every 20 games, Trey and Jose going in and out of slumps, Dyson passing up open shots, all while we’re missing our best scorer.
Watch other teams. There are times when bench scorers or less offensive players can score a lot of buckets consistently. This is usually where they run the same play or two over and over because it exploits something in the defense. If you have a player with a limited offensive game, you have to find a small set of plays that work for them and then try them on a defense. If it works you get an easy 10 points, if it doesn’t you try something else. We don’t have these plays. What is the play for Herb, Trey, Jose, Jonas, etc that we run where you know if the play succeeds they’ll score? None. If you’re going to run out 4 offensively limited starters, you have to setup plays for them.
Posted on 2/1/23 at 10:05 am to higgsBoson
We can't generate open 3 point shots without Zion. It is what it is.
You can watch 25 or more other teams in the league that can easily generate open looks from 3, and we simply cannot do it on that level.
You can watch 25 or more other teams in the league that can easily generate open looks from 3, and we simply cannot do it on that level.
Posted on 2/1/23 at 10:17 am to Fun Bunch
I thought we were a top 6 seed coming into year and was hopeful for top 4.
I’m not saying we can’t get back to that but it’s going to be an uphill battle…. We got to turn things around quick…
I’m not saying we can’t get back to that but it’s going to be an uphill battle…. We got to turn things around quick…
Posted on 2/1/23 at 10:20 am to Fun Bunch
When national writers like Ryen Russillo or calling us a top 5 team when healthy, people who would normally never talk about us in that conversation, I think it is safe to say we are good.
Our offense has 0 creativity without Zion and BI. CJ is frustrating sometimes when he is trying to force shots, but for long stretches of the season he is the only playmaker, and really has no other choice. Jonas has been a liability with his increased role, Herb before last night has been non-existent to a liability on offense, Trey doesn't move from the corner, and the role players (Jose/Naji/DG) have started to come back to reality of why they are role players with their increased minutes. Having BI *should* change that soon.
In the losing streak we have scored over 110 3 times, in the prior 42 games we have scored over 110 36 times, going 24-12 in those games. Of the 6 games in that 42 game stretch we didn't score over 110 we are 2-4. The issue is that we are not a great defensive team so if we aren't scoring we just aren't going to win many games.
Our offense has 0 creativity without Zion and BI. CJ is frustrating sometimes when he is trying to force shots, but for long stretches of the season he is the only playmaker, and really has no other choice. Jonas has been a liability with his increased role, Herb before last night has been non-existent to a liability on offense, Trey doesn't move from the corner, and the role players (Jose/Naji/DG) have started to come back to reality of why they are role players with their increased minutes. Having BI *should* change that soon.
In the losing streak we have scored over 110 3 times, in the prior 42 games we have scored over 110 36 times, going 24-12 in those games. Of the 6 games in that 42 game stretch we didn't score over 110 we are 2-4. The issue is that we are not a great defensive team so if we aren't scoring we just aren't going to win many games.
Posted on 2/1/23 at 10:26 am to Lester Earl
quote:
When you say we, you mean you or the team?
Poor choice of words in a rush doing other things this morning, but you certainly know what I meant
quote:[
You are in your feels this morning huh bunch
?? Not at all.
Posted on 2/1/23 at 10:30 am to lionward2014
quote:Not that it means much, but Russillo actually said if we're assuming health for all teams and he had to pick 1 single team to come out of the West, he'd pic the Pelicans. And that was maybe 2 weeks ago, after our freefall had already started.
When national writers like Ryen Russillo or calling us a top 5 team when healthy, people who would normally never talk about us in that conversation, I think it is safe to say we are good.
Posted on 2/1/23 at 10:38 am to Fun Bunch
We have played like 3 games with our entire roster. Redo the season with the Nuggets missing Either Joker or Murray for all but three games. And add in about half of those with neither available. On top of that throw in 16 without KCP or Michael Porter.
Lets see what their record is
This shite just happened to the Suns.
Booker misses some time they go from first to 10th just like us.
Its hard to win when your top two players play half the season. All we need to do is get in to the playoffs. Desirably in a non playoff spot. This team if healthy will be an incredibly tough out
Lets see what their record is
This shite just happened to the Suns.
Booker misses some time they go from first to 10th just like us.
Its hard to win when your top two players play half the season. All we need to do is get in to the playoffs. Desirably in a non playoff spot. This team if healthy will be an incredibly tough out
Posted on 2/1/23 at 10:45 am to PappaSwolio
For reference Top 3 scorers games played
Pels:
Zion 29
BI 18
CJ 46
Nuggets:
Joker 44
Murray 43
Gordon 46
Grizz:
Ja 42
Bane 28
Jackson 34
Kings:
Fox 46
Sabonis 47
Heurter 46
Pels:
Zion 29
BI 18
CJ 46
Nuggets:
Joker 44
Murray 43
Gordon 46
Grizz:
Ja 42
Bane 28
Jackson 34
Kings:
Fox 46
Sabonis 47
Heurter 46
Posted on 2/1/23 at 10:55 am to Fun Bunch
I think we can compete with almost anyone with a healthy Zion, but when you have to play role players as starters for a good stretch, it eventually catches up to you.
Posted on 2/1/23 at 10:59 am to shel311
quote:
When Zion is off the court, we play to the equivalent of the 25th best team in the NBA.
This is not remotely close to being true. Sure, lets start cherry-picking numbers because Pels certainly weren’t bottom 5 bad all last year while Zion was out. Additionally, along with Zion, Herb, Naji, CJ, Nance, Jose, and BI have missed/injured significant time coinciding with Zion being unavailable. Oh, but don't let that mess up the narrative.
This post was edited on 2/1/23 at 11:05 am
Posted on 2/1/23 at 11:05 am to DarkHornet
quote:
Depends on how good you thought we were. I thought we were a team built to be a solid playoff team that could compete for a Top 4 seed. I still believe we are that. If you thought we were ready to compete for the #1 seed and a title, then I'd say we're not as good as believed.
First post nailing it!
Posted on 2/1/23 at 11:08 am to WB504
quote:
I think we can compete with almost anyone with a healthy Zion, but when you have to play role players as starters for a good stretch, it eventually catches up to you.
this... and that's EXACTLY what's happening.... our role players are being used in a way they are not equipped nor ready for, and are wearing down, and considering we still have no idea when Zion is coming back, BI still isn't "back", etc., yeah, there's a lot to be concerned about with this team... i honestly don't see them coming back from the hole they are putting themselves in right now... i want to, i really do, but i just don't see any "dog" in this team, outside of Naji
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