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Message
re: The OFFICIAL Rogue One: A Star Wars Story ***SPOILERS*** Thread
Posted on 12/25/16 at 9:07 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 12/25/16 at 9:07 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Except that Vader refers to it
he's "fighting the same fight" as Obi Wan, though
There is certainly the conflicting points of view as to whether it's real or a myth (something Lucas absolutely screwed up on in the prequels.) But that is a far cry from it being wholly non-existent until Luke shows up on the scene. In fact, the scene where the general says "may the force be with you" is really the first scene when we see anyone from the Rebellion other than Leia speak.
1
Posted on 12/25/16 at 9:19 pm to Sentrius
The first half of this movie sucked so bad it didn't make up for the second half.
Posted on 12/25/16 at 9:37 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
no. nowhere did i even imply that
You didn't?
quote:
dude, the rebellion was not based around the force, which is why Ben Kenobi and Luke were such a big deal. trying to interject hte force into this is just retarded and takes away from possibly the biggest theme of ANH
Member that? You said it was retarded, is that close enough?
quote:
that gap b/w the prequels and OT is where "the Force", as a legitimate religion, died out. that's why it's such a big deal in ANH
It sounds to me like you took those lines about a "hokie dead religion" in ANH a little too seriously. I always took the saying "may the force be with you" as something that had become a general well wishing among the rebellion. And everything we've seen since the battle of Yavin has totally supported this interpretation.
But also, I never expected the rebel leaders to know enough about Luke, at that point, to direct their pre-mission motivational blessing towards him personally. He was just some random guy who was lucky enough to rescue Leia and happened to claim he was a good pilot when they were desperate for a body in an X wing. The admiral saying may the force be with you to everyone because it's a part of Luke's character arc doesn't really make sense. If it had been Luke saying that to everyone else then what you're proposing makes perfect sense, but that's not what happened. He directed it towards everyone and it didn't matter that there was a newly apprenticed pseudo Jedi in the group, just like you didn't have to be a Christian to wish someone God's speed before a journey. I think George Lucas used that phrase in that moment to establish that the rebellion was pro force, pro Jedi, and on the general side of righteousness while the empire represented the opposite of all that. And in that context it makes perfect sense for anyone who is not aligned with the empire to use the force as a blessing in any star wars movie.
Posted on 12/25/16 at 9:46 pm to Sentrius
I just watched it. Went in with no expectations and thought it was an excellent film that fit perfectly into the SW universe. It did a much better job setting up the OT than Revenge of the Sith. The general story is what I wish Episode 3 would've been with Anakin already turned, wrecking shite, and we see the formation of the rebellion.
Posted on 12/25/16 at 10:25 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
But that is a far cry from it being wholly non-existent until Luke shows up on the scene.
it's not non-existent. i'd say it's discarded by the population at large
Posted on 12/25/16 at 10:29 pm to Merck
quote:
Member that? You said it was retarded, is that close enough?
it's retarded in terms of storytelling and theme. rogue one had nothing to do with the force. nothing
it was a spy-heist flick involving non-Jedi and non-Sith (outside of the limited Vader appearances)
quote:
I always took the saying "may the force be with you" as something that had become a general well wishing among the rebellion.
i didn't
quote:
I think George Lucas used that phrase in that moment to establish that the rebellion was pro force, pro Jedi,
but if we're discounting Luke, there are no Jedi so that doesn't really make sense either
Posted on 12/25/16 at 10:31 pm to FairhopeTider
quote:
The general story is what I wish Episode 3 would've been with Anakin already turned, wrecking shite, and we see the formation of the rebellion.
yeah it would have been much better to have Anakin turn at the end of 2 and then show the betrayal and rebellion in episode 3
Posted on 12/25/16 at 10:32 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i didn't
And you were wrong, it's okay to be wrong.
Posted on 12/25/16 at 10:36 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I have nothing against the plot on first impression, but the characters are all shite and totally unrelatable. I mean, was this intentional since they all die in the end? I feel nothing when any of them are killed. Seriously anytime K-2SO shows up on screen, it just seems like a completely different writer wrote him, and it's probably due more to Tudyk being good at improvising. The biggest missed opportunity is the pilot. What was he supposed to be? It's obvious to make him a drunken Irishman or German to get captured and do dumb shite. Instead they just decide to make him a minority for no reason, give him no personality like the rest of the characters, and continue with their SJW bullshite. In Star Wars, there's usually fricking 4 comic relief characters in one way or another. Tudyk and Vader's scenes plus the beach scene are the only savior for this bullshite.
I can't say this enough:
This is the most arse-backwards review of this film that could possibly have ever been written.
The characters were fleshed out enough to where I didn't want any of them to die in the end. That includes people that happen to have a different skin tone than me.
There was literally no social commentary in this movie. It's a Star Wars movie. When has there ever really been any serious social commentary? Now, if it bothers you that the universe has some other races besides white people then this movie isn't for you. May I suggest the original "Birth of a Nation"?
I will say that the first 40 minutes was forgettable, but when she gives her speech about how rebellions are built on hope I was all on board. The final battle scene was mind blowing. I was fully engaged in these characters' journey.
Posted on 12/25/16 at 10:45 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
the movie didn't need C3PO or those 2 assholes from Mos Eisley
There was about 20 seconds of screen time dedicated to both of these duos total.
Did that really degrade the movie to you?
Posted on 12/25/16 at 11:35 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
but if we're discounting Luke, there are no Jedi so that doesn't really make sense either
You're acting like the destruction of the Jedi was hundreds of years before ANH, it was only 19 years prior. Tons of tons of the people within the Rebellion witnessed that slaughter, they know that was the birth of the Empire. In their minds, "May the Force be with you" is a rallying cry representing the Jedi that resisted the rise of the Empire. It doesn't matter if they don't know any Jedi are alive, and they damn sure aren't directing it at Luke who just showed up with a lightsaber given to him. Nobody at that point had seen Luke do anything with the Force. Lucas meant that as the rallying cry for the good guys and I think the entire stories of the 8 movies made so far show that. May the Force be with you is also just as relevant in Rogue One.
Posted on 12/26/16 at 12:16 am to oreeg
quote:
Also, I'm puzzled how Vader goes from annihilating dozens of rebels like that then literally day later partake in the painfully bland saber fight with Obi Wan in ANH.
I can explain this. See, A New Hope was made in 1977 and Rogue One was made this year. There has been a raising of expectations in fight scenes over the years.
In all seriousness, I love that some of you guys really need these movies to be seemlessly continuous or you have to raise an objection
Posted on 12/26/16 at 8:26 am to LesMiles BFF
quote:
Also, I'm puzzled how Vader goes from annihilating dozens of rebels like that then literally day later partake in the painfully bland saber fight with Obi Wan in ANH.
I can explain this. See, A New Hope was made in 1977 and Rogue One was made this year. There has been a raising of expectations in fight scenes over the years.
It's not like Vader is doing backflips and shite at the end of Rogue One (see Phantom Menace). He's walking slowly towards to the rebels taking big hacks with his lightsaber and force pushing/choking them. It's really not out of character from his appearance in ANH.
Posted on 12/26/16 at 9:18 am to LesMiles BFF
quote:
The characters were fleshed out enough to where I didn't want any of them to die in the end.
Well, lots of people disagree with you here, like here's the new abbreviated Plinkett Review on Rogue One on why it didn't work.
quote:
I will say that the first 40 minutes was forgettable, but when she gives her speech about how rebellions are built on hope I was all on board.
Oh please. It reminded me of the Last Airbender when Katara keeps saying how they need to have hope and it's hope where all wars are won. And if that movie ever comes to mind for me, it's never a good thing.
Show don't tell. And save for Jyn's brief backstory where she's found in a hole by Forrest Whitaker, I wasn't shown any reason to care for these characters.
Posted on 12/26/16 at 10:29 am to OMLandshark
Went and saw it Friday night at Tinseltown. Maybe 25 people in the theater and I've noticed for the standard version, not 3d, the later shows are getting cut. Not doing anywhere close to TFA. It was my second time to see it and didn't hold my interest as much as TFA did on second viewings. Lead male character was too wooden, too shallow. They should've left in the Forrest Whitaker clips that fleshed out their relationship. The battle scenes were pretty good and I enjoyed the use of CGI to bring back the Grand Moff.
Vader was Vader, of course. Even though you could tell JEJ's voice is fading it's still authentic. You know it's him.
It's a good movie, just not a blockbuster or a great one.
As for a Vader stand alone movie, here is an angle no one has suggested. The Jedi may have been extinguished but that doesn't mean people aren't born who could use the force. Suppose someone was born who did and accidentally discovered his powers? Suppose that someone wound up seeking more knowledge of the force but had heard of the massacre so knew he had to be discreet? Time goes by, he travels and somehow he discovers the dark side and turns to it.
The rule of two is still in effect. Suppose Vader is challenged by another Sith lord or apprentice. Yes, we are getting out in left field here but this is sci fi and fantasy writing. Throw in our apprentice finding a crystal or something that creates a hologram of one of the ancient Sith Lords such as Bane explaining and training the Dark Side of the Foce, as Bane found in an ancient Sith temple. Now Vader has a rival he never expected, someone who is a Sith and is quite surprised when he fights what he thinks is a Jedi until that red light appears out of the lightsaber.
Just a thought.
Vader was Vader, of course. Even though you could tell JEJ's voice is fading it's still authentic. You know it's him.
It's a good movie, just not a blockbuster or a great one.
As for a Vader stand alone movie, here is an angle no one has suggested. The Jedi may have been extinguished but that doesn't mean people aren't born who could use the force. Suppose someone was born who did and accidentally discovered his powers? Suppose that someone wound up seeking more knowledge of the force but had heard of the massacre so knew he had to be discreet? Time goes by, he travels and somehow he discovers the dark side and turns to it.
The rule of two is still in effect. Suppose Vader is challenged by another Sith lord or apprentice. Yes, we are getting out in left field here but this is sci fi and fantasy writing. Throw in our apprentice finding a crystal or something that creates a hologram of one of the ancient Sith Lords such as Bane explaining and training the Dark Side of the Foce, as Bane found in an ancient Sith temple. Now Vader has a rival he never expected, someone who is a Sith and is quite surprised when he fights what he thinks is a Jedi until that red light appears out of the lightsaber.
Just a thought.
Posted on 12/26/16 at 10:46 am to prplhze2000
I hope Vader'a standalone movie involves him visiting the planets in the new Empire and negotiating trade deals with them. Not enough bureaucracy outside of the prequels.
Posted on 12/26/16 at 10:50 am to Esquire
There was a very key fact in the books that was left out of the movie. The whole point of the trade wars was to get the Jedi spread out all over the Galaxy fighting battles and leading the clones. Then when order 66 is given, they are all too isolated to fight back.
Never said in the movies that was the whole point of the wars. It would've clarified it somewhat although it would not have made up for the bad scriptwriting.
Never said in the movies that was the whole point of the wars. It would've clarified it somewhat although it would not have made up for the bad scriptwriting.
Posted on 12/26/16 at 10:54 am to Antonio Moss
quote:
quote:
Also, I'm puzzled how Vader goes from annihilating dozens of rebels like that then literally day later partake in the painfully bland saber fight with Obi Wan in ANH.
I can explain this. See, A New Hope was made in 1977 and Rogue One was made this year. There has been a raising of expectations in fight scenes over the years.
It's not like Vader is doing backflips and shite at the end of Rogue One (see Phantom Menace). He's walking slowly towards to the rebels taking big hacks with his lightsaber and force pushing/choking them. It's really not out of character from his appearance in ANH.
Additionally, why would Vader have any reason to fear a couple guys with blasters? He had no reason for caution. When fighting even an old Obi Wan he had to be much more guarded because he is dealing with someone that is basically his equal.
Posted on 12/26/16 at 10:59 am to OMLandshark
We can argue about who did or didn't care about the characters but it doesn't go anywhere. Some did. I certainly did. I thought their deaths were moving and meaningful. And several of them were unexpected, given the previous Star Wars films and the trailers that suggested several would survive.
Posted on 12/26/16 at 11:55 am to Waffle House
Um, the last time he fought Obi Wan, he wound up de-limbed and helpless. Much reason for such caution.
I got tired of the 15 minute light saber fights.
I got tired of the 15 minute light saber fights.
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