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re: Official Falcon and the Winter Soldier Episode 5 Discussion Thread
Posted on 4/19/21 at 9:54 pm to imjustafatkid
Posted on 4/19/21 at 9:54 pm to imjustafatkid
quote:
The boat isn't in great shape, but that and the sister's house could definitely get them a loan or a hefty home equity line of credit. This part of the show just doesn't make logical sense and seems meant to mislead people into believing a situation that doesn't happen.
Or maybe - just maybe - the characters are smart enough not to use their house as collateral to prop up a previously failing business?
I mean it’s pretty clear to me that 1) the business has not been successful and 2) they mainly want to save it for sentimental reasons. In which case it all makes perfect sense. They can’t get a loan because they can’t show that the business is credit-worthy, and they don’t use the house as collateral because they aren’t complete idiots.
The difficult-to-believe part isn’t that they couldn’t get a loan from the bank - it’s that Sam doesn’t call in a favor from one of his rich friends. But even that isn’t a huge stretch. Plenty of folks are too proud to ask a friend for that kind of help.
2
Posted on 4/19/21 at 10:39 pm to lostinbr
quote:
The difficult-to-believe part isn’t that they couldn’t get a loan from the bank - it’s that Sam doesn’t call in a favor from one of his rich friends. But even that isn’t a huge stretch. Plenty of folks are too proud to ask a friend for that kind of help.
Not only that, but he's recognizable as an avenger. No one is going to give him a loan? frick man, make a commercial or a billboard for the bank..its louisiana right? Rules can be adjusted im sure.
This post was edited on 4/19/21 at 10:41 pm
Posted on 4/19/21 at 10:51 pm to Scoob
quote:
In Avengers, you probably had gang-bangers shooting at the Chitauri, a couple blocks over from the National Guard.
I read through this whole thread, but I had to come back to this. I legit laughed out loud at this mental image.
I would legit watch a movie with this theme. Not necessarily Avengers or superheroes. But the idea of a gangster movie where they band together to fight aliens invading the planet. I want to see rival gang members put aside their differences to deal with an extraterrestrial threat. I want to see a thug guy save a cop's life. Then cop respond with something like, "thanks, but this doesn't change anything, I'm still coming to arrest you once all this is over" then they shake hands in mutual respect. This sounds like an absolutely terrible low budget corny movie that goes straight to Netflix. But I would enjoy the shite out of it.
Posted on 4/19/21 at 11:16 pm to Salmon
Speaking of. I'm glad that Blue dude doesn't watch this show. He can't hassle women or minorities in lead roles and rails about it constantly.
Posted on 4/19/21 at 11:21 pm to QJenk
Sort of happened in 'The Strain like that. With gangsters and police.
At least towards the end.
At least towards the end.
Posted on 4/20/21 at 1:00 am to QJenk
quote:
the idea of a gangster movie where they band together to fight aliens invading the planet
It kind of exists. Attack the Block is close but it's the London projects and not street gangs.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 7:47 am to theGarnetWay
quote:
The whole conversation with Isaiah pretty much addressed this. It isn’t that Sam or other black people aren’t physically capable of being Captain America or fighting the Avengers.
Is that the point you thought I was making? You thought I was saying black people aren't physically capable of being Captain America?
quote:
It’s that some may reject having a black man fill the role of Captain America - the symbol of the United States and the leader of the Avengers.
Some? Who? 50% were saved by the effort given by the Avengers, and the other 50% had family members and friends saved. It's fricking retarded to find it reasonable to return to a pre-snap, racial injustice view of the world.
quote:
If you’re someone like Isaiah - who was experimented on against his will
Obviously, Isaiah has a reason to be pissed. It's a personal reason. It's not because he was black. Bucky was tortured, experimented on, brainwashed, etc.
We've learned in the MCU that the shadow government is evil. This isn't news. And, it isn't (hasn't) been a reflection of America. In fact, the effort has been to rid the government of Hydra and restore America.
quote:
It’s not unreasonable for Sam to hesitate at the idea either.
It's unreasonable. Sam entered the Avengers with a black man fricking running Shield. A black man was Iron Man's #1 counterpart. And, himself, because a valuable member quickly.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 7:54 am to USMCTIGER1970
quote:
But I will say that the cop scene really rubbed me wrong a was completely unneeded. Didn't do anything to advance or add to the story. Just some stupid writer being a jackass.
Racism is a central theme of this story. It shouldn't be.
But, it is. The writers had to find ways to portray that.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 9:29 am to lostinbr
quote:
They can’t get a loan because they can’t show that the business is credit-worthy, and they don’t use the house as collateral because they aren’t complete idiots.
Actually, I'm pretty sure his sister did. In the first episode, when they were arguing about selling the boat Sam tells her something like, "it became my business when you tied the house into the loan".
Posted on 4/21/21 at 9:46 am to LittleJerrySeinfield
quote:
Actually, I'm pretty sure his sister did. In the first episode, when they were arguing about selling the boat Sam tells her something like, "it became my business when you tied the house into the loan".
Oof. You may be right. I forgot about that line.
Although that makes it even more clear why the bank wouldn't give them more money, if they were already overleveraged.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 10:11 am to moneyg
quote:
It's unreasonable. Sam entered the Avengers with a black man fricking running Shield. A black man was Iron Man's #1 counterpart. And, himself, because a valuable member quickly.
It seemed pretty clear to me that Sam's primary reason for hesitating had nothing to do with being black. he didn't think anybody (white or black) was worthy of filling Steve's shoes. Which is why he donated the shield to the Smithsonian - out of respect for Steve's legacy.
I'm sure the fact that he's not a super soldier plays into it as well, as demonstrated by his difficulty handling the shield when he's practicing.
Anyhow, Bucky convinces him that he made a mistake, and that Steve gave him the shield for a reason. Basically that the best way to honor Steve's legacy is by carrying out his wishes (that Sam keep the shield).
Sam's hurdle isn't coming to terms with the idea that a black man can be Captain America. It's coming to terms with the idea that he is worthy of being Captain America.
At the same time, it would be a little naive to completely ignore that aspect of the story. There was a good chunk of the fan base (including on this board) who collectively rolled their eyes when Steve gave Sam the shield. The Isaiah storyline, while a little clumsy, serves to close that loop. Sam briefly considers whether being black matters. And he pretty quickly decides - no, it doesn't. He hears Isaiah's story and feels sympathetic for him, but he also realizes that Isaiah is a bitter old man from a different era, with an axe to grind against the government and the supposed "good guys."
I'm a little surprised to see people bitching about how the show has approached race. If anything, it seems to me like a positive message of "acknowledge the past, but don't let it guide your future." And I can't help but wonder if the people rolling their eyes at that message are the same folks who rolled their eyes at Anthony Mackie being cast as Captain America in the first place.
Also..
quote:
It's fricking retarded to find it reasonable to return to a pre-snap, racial injustice view of the world.
Is it any more retarded than an entire movement built on wanting to return to the state of the world DURING the snap?
Posted on 4/21/21 at 10:39 am to 3nOut
quote:
Outside of an Avenger not getting a loan I don’t think anything in this has been ridiculous.
While I agree an Avenger would easily get a signature loan for whatever amount they wanted from a bank you have to consider the time and place.
If half the people disappeared for 5 years that would have a serious effect on global financial markets. In 5 years time the world would adjust somewhat and economies and money supplies would shrink to fit the population.
Now snap half the population back into existence and 6 months later there would be serious shortages of supplies, resources, and money. Credit would be really tight.
I'd give an Avenger a loan but it's reasonable think the bank just had very little capital available to lend out.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 10:57 am to SoDakHawk
quote:
While I agree an Avenger would easily get a signature loan for whatever amount they wanted from a bank you have to consider the time and place.
In the real world, the Avengers would have all pumped themselves out to sponsors anyway. But alas, the MCU isn’t The Boys, so guys like Sam Wilson and James Rhodes are apparently living on government salaries. (Side note - is Sam even technically employed at this point? It’s not clear to me whether he and Bucky are working for the government.)
So I’m not sure a bank would just give him a signature loan, even without the global financial issues. Better play for someone as famous as an Avenger would be to try to sell an endorsement. But again.. that’s not really something that seems to happen in the MCU.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 11:57 am to lostinbr
Sam mentioned to the banker that his application included government contracts. I take it Sam earns his living as an independent military contractor.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 1:22 pm to imjustafatkid
quote:well look at how a certain culture still blames wypipo for all their problems. Staying true to character and not evening meaning to.
If all of that doesn't get him to move on, then he's allowing the US government to continue to control him and locking himself up willingly for them.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 1:29 pm to tucoco
quote:didnt BP eat the last one in BP1?
but a thought entered my head about it being the special heart shaped herb that the Panther eats to gain his superstrength.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 1:32 pm to WicKed WayZ
quote:my biggest gripe of the show. they nerfed WS so much is unbelievable now.
Does anyone else feel like Bucky’s fighting abilities have taken a hit?
Posted on 4/21/21 at 1:39 pm to Scoob
quote:i fought this battle in ep 3 thread. some people are just hard headed.
People keep saying things like this, but seriously-
we're talking about TONY STARK here. The man did background research on everything and everyone. He fricking found Peter Parker in NYC, running around in underwear.
Sam was guarding the Avengers facility (and thus was an Avenger) in Ant-Man, which was before Civil War. He was the only guy there it seemed, which meant he had TOTAL ACCESS to everything at that site.
Tony has repeatedly said HE was funding the Avengers.
You can't convince me that Stark didn't at least do a basic credit check, to make sure nobody was vulnerable to EXACTLY what has happened to Sam and his sister. Because the concern wouldn't be a bank repo, it would be a criminal organization sinking their teeth into someone and compromising the team.
Falcon hooked up with Steve while Hydra was a major threat, and they were still hunting down bases in AOU. Even if they felt they got the bulk of it rooted out, it would have been fresh in everyone's minds. I'd say even Steve would have agreed that financial security would be a must, for anyone allowed full access to Avengers stuff.
A shrimp boat is barely pocket change for Stark.
Posted on 4/21/21 at 1:39 pm to SoDakHawk
Plus they had to factor in Sam’s financial well-being and his ability to repay the loan. There are so many regulations they have to follow as well. It’s not as simple as “we’ll give you a loan if you do this advertisement for us”. That’s all kinds of illegal.
Now could they have just paid him $50k to do some commercials for them? Sure. But prior to this show, he was gone for 5 years and before that was on the run for 2 years branded as a criminal/traitor, so.
Now could they have just paid him $50k to do some commercials for them? Sure. But prior to this show, he was gone for 5 years and before that was on the run for 2 years branded as a criminal/traitor, so.
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