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Message
re: Martin Scorsese Doesn't Think Marvel Movies Are Cinema (updated)
Posted on 10/3/19 at 11:39 pm to jg8623
Posted on 10/3/19 at 11:39 pm to jg8623
quote:Exactly. And it's COMPLETELY subjective. It may not be what some consider art, but it's absolutely art. If people think it's easy to make effective comic book movies, just see early DCEU and Fox Xmen lately.
And art can be basically anything
0
Posted on 10/4/19 at 12:36 am to Green Chili Tiger
Original government-sanctioned task force run or the newer, and far superior, private detective agency run?
Posted on 10/4/19 at 12:59 am to RLDSC FAN
quote:
Martin Scorsese Doesn't Think Marvel Movies Are Cinema
Aka old man is mad his movies never made Marvel money.
I’m no Marvel fanboy and I love a lot of Scorsese’s movies, but he needs to stop crying
Posted on 10/4/19 at 1:09 am to RLDSC FAN
If anyone watched this fantastic multipart documentary, they'd agree with Scorsese.
YouTube
Cinema is different from what we have today with CGI and actors not even acting to each other but spliced in later after green screen.
Marvel is a fun ride...so Scorcese was right to say it's just an amusement Park..it offers no value to Cinema...you get on, bring the rugrats, yeah..I was entertained! So many cool things happened on screen, explosions and flying in the sky! It's like the Superman ride at Six Flags!
But there's no real appreciation for your good time. No introspection, no dissection of the Director, how do you dissect green screen? Oh man, that green screen was a little off man, a little off.
No real stories. Because it's make believeland in front of makebelieve production and directors who really don't have to direct shite on location. You got your computer, you're set.
You can't make fantasy movies as real cinema. You can only make them in fantasy-land if that makes any sense. The movies can't be shot in real life. Just on computers.
Scorcese is simply saying Cinema can capture real life and that's the point of Cinema.
Marvel movies capture Disneyland and fake movie productions with fake production...with fake green screens and fake CGI...
Nothing about it is Cinema. Or film. It might be fun and you might like the movies...but it has become a million miles away from Cinema. It's rote production of computer generated images and actors that talk to nobody and is added in post-production.
YouTube
Cinema is different from what we have today with CGI and actors not even acting to each other but spliced in later after green screen.
Marvel is a fun ride...so Scorcese was right to say it's just an amusement Park..it offers no value to Cinema...you get on, bring the rugrats, yeah..I was entertained! So many cool things happened on screen, explosions and flying in the sky! It's like the Superman ride at Six Flags!
But there's no real appreciation for your good time. No introspection, no dissection of the Director, how do you dissect green screen? Oh man, that green screen was a little off man, a little off.
No real stories. Because it's make believeland in front of makebelieve production and directors who really don't have to direct shite on location. You got your computer, you're set.
You can't make fantasy movies as real cinema. You can only make them in fantasy-land if that makes any sense. The movies can't be shot in real life. Just on computers.
Scorcese is simply saying Cinema can capture real life and that's the point of Cinema.
Marvel movies capture Disneyland and fake movie productions with fake production...with fake green screens and fake CGI...
Nothing about it is Cinema. Or film. It might be fun and you might like the movies...but it has become a million miles away from Cinema. It's rote production of computer generated images and actors that talk to nobody and is added in post-production.
This post was edited on 10/4/19 at 1:15 am
Posted on 10/4/19 at 1:21 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
We need Turkey Burger or one of his other names to explain cinema to these cretins.
Or is that you, Mizzou?
Or is that you, Mizzou?
Posted on 10/4/19 at 4:40 am to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
I can’t wait until the comic book phase is dead
same
Posted on 10/4/19 at 5:46 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Scorsese's definition of cinema is subjective.
Exactly.
He is speaking of classic elements of cinema film-making. Like a French chef saying McDonald's isn't cuisine. Marvel movies are some kickass, world-class entertainment... But as a film-maker he doesn't see a bunch of actors standing in front of a green screen reading clever banter and quips while animators and stunt doubles do 90 percent of the work.. ..as what he considers great "cinema"...and it's probably not.
Just like a chef doesn't consider teenage kids throwing pre-formed burger patties and frozen fries into grease.. .. as "cuisine". If I'm starving my a$$ off and just need to eat and move on, give me a f#ckin cheeseburger and fries... screw some Paris educated chef and his $800 entree of Sevruga Caviar Frittata... that I can shove down in one bite... then have to go get a burger..
If I want to ponder the fragmentation of the human psyche.. regressing to dysfunctional inability to integrate into normative situations of society, or brood over symbolic interactionism, constructionism and pragmatism... give me the real cinema as Scorsese speaks of.
If I want entertainment and to escape for an hour or two while the villians get a beatdown...dished out by military-genetic-enhanced meta-humans and flying alien super-heroes.. ..screw "real" film-makers and cinema...give me some computor-geek-animators with epic, digital software, and some in-your-face one-liners...you know...like: .."and I.. ..am Iron Man"...
Posted on 10/4/19 at 6:01 am to RLDSC FAN
I agree with him.
Posted on 10/4/19 at 7:00 am to MiDixon Yermouth
Scorsese has a point to a degree BUT cinema is about entertainment overall, IMHO, and just because a film does a bunch of pretentious shite and tells a story about flawed people doesn’t make it entertaining.
And it is also possible for the kinds of popcorn flicks he is knocking to kick the shite out of his own work artistically as well as financially.
Circa 1999, Scorsese released Bringing Out The Dead, which was an incredibly bleak film about NYC paramedics who were on the verge of cracking up. Not particularly entertaining in part because it was so dark it was hard to sit through. Frankly, it came off as a first responder version of Bad Lieutenant by Abel Ferrara, which was another dark character piece about a dirty NYPD officer.
Know what else came out around the same time and was the big hit of that year? The Matrix. It was a popcorn flick but one that was extremely influential in that it either created or popularized a number of visual techniques like bullet time and wire-fu within western film. It also had what was a fairly original story.
One of these two is forgotten for the most part twenty years later while the other is seen as a classic, and it ain’t the one by Scorsese.
And it is also possible for the kinds of popcorn flicks he is knocking to kick the shite out of his own work artistically as well as financially.
Circa 1999, Scorsese released Bringing Out The Dead, which was an incredibly bleak film about NYC paramedics who were on the verge of cracking up. Not particularly entertaining in part because it was so dark it was hard to sit through. Frankly, it came off as a first responder version of Bad Lieutenant by Abel Ferrara, which was another dark character piece about a dirty NYPD officer.
Know what else came out around the same time and was the big hit of that year? The Matrix. It was a popcorn flick but one that was extremely influential in that it either created or popularized a number of visual techniques like bullet time and wire-fu within western film. It also had what was a fairly original story.
One of these two is forgotten for the most part twenty years later while the other is seen as a classic, and it ain’t the one by Scorsese.
Posted on 10/4/19 at 7:12 am to RLDSC FAN
Does he consider Star Wars to be the same?
Posted on 10/4/19 at 7:28 am to RLDSC FAN
He’s 100% correct. Some of the MCU movies are fun, but they aren’t real movies for the most part.
This post was edited on 10/4/19 at 8:14 am
Posted on 10/4/19 at 9:36 am to RLDSC FAN
Posted on 10/4/19 at 9:43 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
If anyone watched this fantastic multipart documentary, they'd agree with Scorsese.
YouTube
Cinema is different from what we have today with CGI and actors not even acting to each other but spliced in later after green screen.
Marvel is a fun ride...so Scorcese was right to say it's just an amusement Park..it offers no value to Cinema...you get on, bring the rugrats, yeah..I was entertained! So many cool things happened on screen, explosions and flying in the sky! It's like the Superman ride at Six Flags!
But there's no real appreciation for your good time. No introspection, no dissection of the Director, how do you dissect green screen? Oh man, that green screen was a little off man, a little off.
No real stories. Because it's make believeland in front of makebelieve production and directors who really don't have to direct shite on location. You got your computer, you're set.
You can't make fantasy movies as real cinema. You can only make them in fantasy-land if that makes any sense. The movies can't be shot in real life. Just on computers.
Scorcese is simply saying Cinema can capture real life and that's the point of Cinema.
Marvel movies capture Disneyland and fake movie productions with fake production...with fake green screens and fake CGI...
Nothing about it is Cinema. Or film. It might be fun and you might like the movies...but it has become a million miles away from Cinema. It's rote production of computer generated images and actors that talk to nobody and is added in post-production.
This is a fine definition, and one I sort of agree with to a point (it is a great documentary btw).
But that's a very restrictive view of cinema, therefore, there are FAR more films that are not Cinema than just comic book films. I've never seen him call those out.
(And the definition runs into problems anyway when you consider Interstellar, Gravity, Star Wars, LoTR, anything using miniatures, painted backgrounds, CGI in heavy doses).
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Posted on 10/4/19 at 9:43 am to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
I can’t wait until the comic book phase is dead
It has honestly just begun. Sorry.
Posted on 10/4/19 at 10:29 am to RLDSC FAN
Marvel movies are all popcorn action movies, much like all the Rock's movies
It's not Cinema...I'd go so far as to say MArvel movies shouldn't be up for any awards either
It's not Cinema...I'd go so far as to say MArvel movies shouldn't be up for any awards either
Posted on 10/4/19 at 10:35 am to Freauxzen
I kind of wonder if his ire towards comic based cinema was brought about b/c Joker is tracking to do really well at the box office all while being compared to King of Comedy which was a massive box office bomb.
Posted on 10/4/19 at 10:53 am to RLDSC FAN
#hesrightyouknow
Posted on 10/4/19 at 11:39 am to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
I can’t wait until the comic book phase is dead
Do you mean superheroes or comics in general?
Cause I guarantee you have some films/tv shows you really love that were originally comic books but you didn't realize it because the subject wasn't men in tights.
Posted on 10/4/19 at 12:13 pm to RLDSC FAN
who gives a shite? It's not like we are choosing our last $10 on "Cinema" or Comic Book Movies.
I bet some other loser once said "the cinema is the theme park for literature"
I bet some other loser once said "the cinema is the theme park for literature"
Posted on 10/4/19 at 12:14 pm to abellsujr
Storytelling is the actual purpose, and stories are told through various media.
If they cultivate the imagination to allow you to accept the story and consider it, and it provokes thought, it's effective.
I don't consider Pac-Man as a story, you just "do". I do consider Mass Effect a story, probably one of the better SF stories of this generation, across any media.
Back to MCU movies being cinema or not... they tell the story. Is it different from what Scorsese did? Yep. But more because he didn't choose that particular type of tale, and not due to any technical details. If he chose to make a movie about super-powered individuals, he'd also have to make use of effects, to create a believable atmosphere.
This just isn't in his wheelhouse. And it sounds like, because it's not his preferred means, he's deriding it.
If they cultivate the imagination to allow you to accept the story and consider it, and it provokes thought, it's effective.
I don't consider Pac-Man as a story, you just "do". I do consider Mass Effect a story, probably one of the better SF stories of this generation, across any media.
Back to MCU movies being cinema or not... they tell the story. Is it different from what Scorsese did? Yep. But more because he didn't choose that particular type of tale, and not due to any technical details. If he chose to make a movie about super-powered individuals, he'd also have to make use of effects, to create a believable atmosphere.
This just isn't in his wheelhouse. And it sounds like, because it's not his preferred means, he's deriding it.
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