re: Mark Hamill: I think of Luke as a different character in TLJ, he's not my Luke Skywalker

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Masked Kylo looks so fricking badass.

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I like him destroying the mask and becoming his own person. I like that snoke made fun of his mask, that felt like a real thing that a real person would say to someone.

the mask is badass, and he had it for a whole movie. I liked his body language and the sound design with him stomping around starkiller base looking for rey.

rey's character is kind of shite, but ridley just has an on screen presence and charisma to her. driver is a good actor and kylo ren is the only character that's not lifeless. I like him...I just hate that after making 2 big choices and stepping up to take control he remains a whiny bitch and hux is looking at him in the walker kind of the way I was looking at him from the audience. it felt like he wasn't evil in that moment, just crazy...and stupid

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Believe it or not, the universe that Lucas set up is very limited. He created this whole galaxy that is focused on one family lineage.

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Well, yes, it did.

That's one of the reasons you write it as a movie, and not a series- you create a climatic event that the main character moves towards, which will be the pinnacle and most important event in his life. After he achieves that, his story will not be as interesting ever again.
Star Wars the original movie, that was Luke stopping the Empire and destroying the Death Star. When they transitioned to the original trilogy, that was Luke stopping the Emperor and redeeming Vader.
In comparison, James T Kirk never had that singular achievement in Star Trek (the original series), and you could keep having episodes. Even make movies with him, because they actually are still just episodes in the Star Trek vein, just longer.

You can't make Star Wars sequels and continue to keep Luke as the primary protagonist, but you do have a developed and fantastic universe to set stories in. They honestly should never have touched the Force or the politics, because it undoes what Luke did.
Not while he still lives, at least.

You can make tons of lesser films (Rogue One, for example) in the universe, and explore any number of things. Just like a Star Trek episode of the week, pick a planet or system and examine issues that you want. Wouldn't make a billion dollars on 1 film, but you can churn them out and more than make up the difference.

But going in and deconstructing the OT is a huge mistake. Imagine a Lord of the Rings sequel, there is another evil force that has rebuilt the One Ring, restored Mordor and has defeated Minas Tirith, and Aragorn is leaving divorced and bitter in the woods somewhere while Middle Earth is rampaged by Orcs again. That shits on his legacy, and makes LOTR totally irrelevant. That is just about the same as what they are doing here.
Hell, it's worse, you would have to have Aragorn be succeeded by some random Easterling with no Numenorean blood, thus negating the strong family lineage the previous story developed.

If you want to do that with LOTR, you don't touch the actual property, you do Warcraft or similar (say, Game of Thrones). If you want to do that with Star Wars, you do it with another property.

Star Wars post-OT should never have been about anything other than the peace and prosperity that Luke brought to the galaxy. Explore smaller events, but don't undo the Skywalker legacy.

"Into Exile I Must Go, Failed I Have"

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So yea he voiced his opinion then got told by Disney to shut the frick up because you are losing us and you money.

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Hamill has been really cool about all of this; you know he hated the movie when he saw it, especially his own character. But I really wish he would have held firm on his opinion. What was Disney going to do? No chance they shoot this movie without him after the cliffhanger at the end of TFA.

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No chance they shoot this movie without him after the cliffhanger at the end of TFA.

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Would his contract status allow this? Did they really start a jedi trilogy without the guaranteed rights to Luke?

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Then why the ever living fck did he leave some convoluted treasure map behind for the resistance....hidden in two separate droids to ensure it didn't fall into the wrong hands? If he didn't want to be a part of the outside world, if he didn't want to engage or help, if he simply wanted to live his remaining years as a hermit....Why was it THE central focus of the plot in TFA?

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Luke didn't leave anything behind.

He even possibly erased that area of charted space from nearly all systems in the galaxy. The dude didn't want to be found.

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Believe it or not, the universe that Lucas set up is very limited.

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Believe it or not, it isn't.

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He created this whole galaxy that is focused on one family lineage.

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George Lucas has said since day 1 that Star Wars is the story of the Skywalker family.

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Rian is simply moving the story forward and showing that anyone is capable of greatness.

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I know some casual fans of the movies missed this, but not every Jedi or Sith is a Skywalker.

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Rian Johnson and Disney is creatively broke.

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FIFY

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Each Trilogy has had the same story arc, and Rian is bucking that trend.

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I must have missed where a son turned his father away from the Sith in ROtS.
Here's the thing, there has been established and canon material for decades. We didn't need Jacen Solo rewritten as Ben Solo. We didn't need Rey, the unknown force sensitive nobody from Jakku. If Disney wanted to do a side movie about new characters that they wanted to add to the canon, cool, they bought the rights, nobody would have balked that. However, to wipe away canon for their new ideas was a poor decision, but when they announced The Force Awakens, I agreed to give it a shot. Man, to tell you the truth, I loved it. I was psyched for The Last Jedi. However, that movie was garbage as a Star Wars movie. The point that Mark Hamill was making about that not being the same character, that Luke Skywalker would never have contemplated, much less tried to kill his nephew in his sleep, if you don't agree with him, then you need to

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Get over it already.

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Then why the ever living fck did he leave some convoluted treasure map behind for the resistance

Why was it THE central focus of the plot in TFA?

Where is Luke Skywalker? What has he been doing for 30 years? Who is Snoke? What is the significance of Reys leniage? What or who is The Knights of Ren?

Why tease numerous plot points that go nowhere and include a penical cliff hanger that ends up being a throw away?

TLJ is a contradiction on many levels. Some posters have nailed it, it's as if the director wanted it to be a stand-alone somehow.

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The following isn't a defense of the merits of the movie,these thoughts or potential storylines, i just like talking Star Wars. Feel free to tl;dr,

---- The Luke leaving behind the map thing would be tough to reconcile, I can think of two things (although it could certainly just be an inconsistency).

(1) As the other poster said, we haven't confirmed who did leave the map behind. I am not sure who or if that will be answered but it is an interesting possibility which could play a role in the third film.

(2) And this could very well be proven wrong in how the story of Ben turning is told in the move, but Luke could have gone to the final jedi temple island or whatever with the intention of coming back and helping when, and only after reflecting on all of Jedi failures decided he wanted to live along, die out and take the jedi religion with him. So he may have left the map and then later after years of brooding alone for so many years.

From the other side, it was a major conflict (more set-up to get to Luke) along with the starkiller base and destroying it. The rebels are getting desperate and thus are desperate to find luke. I haven't seen it in a while so i'm not sure if they have had that map portion for a long time (the larger map portion) of if they just got it at the beginning of TFA.

----- Where is Luke Skywalker? What has he been doing for 30 years? Living on the island with those cue little penguin owl things and green milk animals and the jedi texts.

----- Supreme Leader of the first order who carried out the destruction of the destruction of the Hosnian system and was a very very powerful force user (was he ever defined as a sith?) He was killed by his apprentice Kylo Ren and as Yoda says "the true" burden of a master, is for their students to grow beyond them. He also was the second source of Kylo's conflict - at the end of AFA he killed Han the good side, and then he goes on to kill Snoke, maybe for the sake of taking power, but maybe also because he still has conflict about killing Rey and thinks he can turn her to join him. (I forget how the kylo rey battle starts and their dialogue into the "don't do this" (a great moment in the movie IMO) line.

----- This is one I actually enjoy - What is the significance of Reys leniage. The was desperately hoping they would come back to her, searching for her parents and looking for them in Han and now Luke but her destiny lies along her own path (cave scene). As Kylo said to her, she needs to let go of the past, he said it for different reasons, but what she needs she’ll only find in herself. Sort enforcing the idea that its not all about the Skywalker line and the "awakening of the force" in others. (which is something i'd like to discuss, in the old republic were abilities largely parent to child passed down (I know the sisters and the planets where maul came from all had strong force abilities, but i feel like it would have been more just people happen to be born with strong force capabilities).


----- We have to assume that What or who is The Knights of Ren are the other younglings taken from Luke, the ones Kylo didn't kill. They didn't play a role in this, but it was a fairly limited "scope" and all so if they weren't a part of that battle group following the rebels you wouldn't have seen them. I have a feeling, or at least a hope, that they will play a role in being the major antagonists in the next film, but it is hard to speculate. They could do a lot of cool things in the next film (hopefully without the same number of jokes) which would validate this film even more.

Honestly, they shouldn't have had multiple directors - its a trilogy and i don't know if they had an idea for all three storylines at the start or how it is done. TFA was a more classic action star wars frick yeah film which i enjoyed even while many were saying it was just a rehash of ANH, i personally liked the TLJ more because it made me think about some of what i said above and seemed to engross in some of the mysteries of the force and human nature while certainly having a lot of drawbacks which have been discussed ad nauseum and I didn't want this post to be another review argue about the quality of the movie (sorry for the massive post fyi)