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Posted on 2/27/20 at 10:58 am to Freauxzen
quote:
I have no delusions with this format. All of the truly great stuff will get beat in the end.
What are the shows we should all recognize as truly great? Which ones should we make sure and not consider them great?
quote:
This will end up, unceremoniously, to be between BB, Seinfeld and GOT in some configuration. Nothing else has a shot.
Breaking Bad has the easiest path to the final four. But I think The Office, The Wire, Sopranos, Stranger Things, outside shots Peaky Blinders, Always Sunny, MASH, and Friends all have a shot at the final four. Maybe 1 or two more.
quote:
But in the end, it lacks the humanity of a Frasier or Cheers, the true innovations of AD or The Office, or bigger more insightful meaning like South Park in the 30-min. comedy category. And it isn't as revolutionary as The Simpsons. There'a a tough of stuff to love about Seinfeld, but at the end, it's just a really clever and well made show with outstanding characters, it just misses that extra omph that makes it truly special
I'm not a huge Seinfeld fan but just bc it isnt innovation or revolutionary doesnt mean it cant be special. Is insightfulness much more important than rewatchability? Or is humanity so much better than all time great characters? It does numerous things better than other great comedies but it cant be considered special I guess bc it isnt great in the right areas.
Posted on 2/27/20 at 11:07 am to iwyLSUiwy
Why don't you use a site where you can set up your own bracket and everyone votes? It seems like that would be a much better option.
Posted on 2/27/20 at 11:12 am to thatoneguy
quote:
Why don't you use a site where you can set up your own bracket and everyone votes? It seems like that would be a much better option.
that's a good idea actually. brackethq is pretty good.
Posted on 2/27/20 at 1:54 pm to iwyLSUiwy
COOKING WITH METH 101 REGION
1. Breaking Bad
9. Arrested Development
5. Battlestar Galactica
4. Scrubs
11. Batman: The Animated Series
3. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
10. I Love Lucy
2. The Simpsons
WOMEN DONT RESPECT SALAD EATERS REGION
1. Seinfeld
9. The Americans
5. Twilight Zone
4. LOST
6. Mad Men
3. Stranger Things
7. All in the Family
2. Sopranos
OMAR DEVINTE LITTLE REGION
1. The Wire
8. The Andy Griffith Show
5. Parks and Recreation
13. Fargo
6. Curb Your Enthusiasm
3. South Park
10. Archer
2. The Office
MUH QUEEN REGION
1. Game of Thrones
8. The Shield
5. Friends
4. Peaky Blinders
6. Frasier
3. M*A*S*H
7. The X-Files
10. Cheers
1. Breaking Bad
9. Arrested Development
5. Battlestar Galactica
4. Scrubs
11. Batman: The Animated Series
3. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
10. I Love Lucy
2. The Simpsons
WOMEN DONT RESPECT SALAD EATERS REGION
1. Seinfeld
9. The Americans
5. Twilight Zone
4. LOST
6. Mad Men
3. Stranger Things
7. All in the Family
2. Sopranos
OMAR DEVINTE LITTLE REGION
1. The Wire
8. The Andy Griffith Show
5. Parks and Recreation
13. Fargo
6. Curb Your Enthusiasm
3. South Park
10. Archer
2. The Office
MUH QUEEN REGION
1. Game of Thrones
8. The Shield
5. Friends
4. Peaky Blinders
6. Frasier
3. M*A*S*H
7. The X-Files
10. Cheers
Posted on 2/27/20 at 2:03 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
What are the shows we should all recognize as truly great? Which ones should we make sure and not consider them great?
I mean, you answered that here:
quote:
GoT had about 10 narrative arcs that could have been all time great but ruined them all in 3 episodes.
But, because it's popular it will win/make at least the final four, even if objectively it has a lot of issues. Such is the problem.
It's just that most people don't try to separate their objective "I like this thing," from "This thing is actually good." "Best" and "Favorite" lists are different animals. Take Friends for instance. I'm one of the biggest fans around here of that show. I think it's unique, funny and charming, and just plain good. It's probably a Top 5 Favorite show for me. On the flipside, it MIGHT be a Top 30 Best Show. At best. Objectively speaking, Friends is pretty meh.
Or, better said, I'd vote different if you said "What's your favorite show" rather than "Best TV Shows of All Time." That adds certain requirements that we aren't really getting to.
quote:
Breaking Bad has the easiest path to the final four. But I think The Office, The Wire, Sopranos, Stranger Things, outside shots Peaky Blinders, Always Sunny, MASH, and Friends all have a shot at the final four. Maybe 1 or two more.
The only one of these that has a semblance of a shot at the final 2 is probably Wire. 1) Comedies will nearly always lose out to more complex shows just based on the inability of some to be objective with the comparison. 2) Friends gets as much hate as it gets love around here. Peaky, not popular enough. Even the Office, when facing BB will get crushed. etc.
quote:
Is insightfulness much more important than rewatchability?
You did call it "Best" so what would be the guideline?
I think a lot of artistic value is driven by what something intends to say and how well it says it. That's why The Wire is better than Friends. That's a big piece, not the only piece though.
Posted on 2/27/20 at 3:34 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
But, because it's popular it will win/make at least the final four, even if objectively it has a lot of issues. Such is the problem.
With that show in particular though, it had 4 of the greatest seasons in TV history, two pretty good seasons, one meh and one outright bad. Compare that to another show like The Newsroom (just picking a random show I like), who had three really good seasons and wrapped the show up nicely. What is more impressive? Sure The Newsroom was good all the way through, but who's to say that if it went a couple more seasons that it wouldnt turn into crap. That's tough to say.
quote:
Take Friends for instance. I'm one of the biggest fans around here of that show. I think it's unique, funny and charming, and just plain good. It's probably a Top 5 Favorite show for me. On the flipside, it MIGHT be a Top 30 Best Show. At best. Objectively speaking, Friends is pretty meh.
If this was just a tournament of comedies, it probably would be considered one of the "best."
quote:
You did call it "Best" so what would be the guideline?
I honestly gave about 3 seconds worth of thought to the title
I think some of the tournaments before were "greatest" so I just changed it up. I never once thought about putting "most popular," I wouldnt have had a problem doing that. Im just voting on which show I like more. Basically if I had to make a list of my favorite TV shows of all time, where would each fall and whichever I think would be higher, I vote for that one. 
Posted on 2/27/20 at 4:01 pm to iwyLSUiwy
COOKING WITH METH 101 REGION
1. Breaking Bad
9. Arrested Development
5. Battlestar Galactica
4. Scrubs
11. Batman: The Animated Series
3. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
10. I Love Lucy
2. The Simpsons
WOMEN DONT RESPECT SALAD EATERS REGION
1. Seinfeld
9. The Americans
5. Twilight Zone
4. LOST
6. Mad Men
3. Stranger Things
7. All in the Family
2. Sopranos
OMAR DEVINTE LITTLE REGION
1. The Wire
8. The Andy Griffith Show
5. Parks and Recreation
13. Fargo
6. Curb Your Enthusiasm
3. South Park
10. Archer
2. The Office
MUH QUEEN REGION
1. Game of Thrones
8. The Shield
5. Friends
4. Peaky Blinders
6. Frasier
3. M*A*S*H
7. The X-Files
10. Cheers
1. Breaking Bad
9. Arrested Development
5. Battlestar Galactica
4. Scrubs
11. Batman: The Animated Series
3. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
10. I Love Lucy
2. The Simpsons
WOMEN DONT RESPECT SALAD EATERS REGION
1. Seinfeld
9. The Americans
5. Twilight Zone
4. LOST
6. Mad Men
3. Stranger Things
7. All in the Family
2. Sopranos
OMAR DEVINTE LITTLE REGION
1. The Wire
8. The Andy Griffith Show
5. Parks and Recreation
13. Fargo
6. Curb Your Enthusiasm
3. South Park
10. Archer
2. The Office
MUH QUEEN REGION
1. Game of Thrones
8. The Shield
5. Friends
4. Peaky Blinders
6. Frasier
3. M*A*S*H
7. The X-Files
10. Cheers
Posted on 2/27/20 at 4:37 pm to iwyLSUiwy
COOKING WITH METH 101 REGION
1. Breaking Bad
4. Scrubs
11. Batman: The Animated Series
3. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
2. The Simpsons
WOMEN DONT RESPECT SALAD EATERS REGION
1. Seinfeld
5. Twilight Zone
3. Stranger Things
2. Sopranos
OMAR DEVINTE LITTLE REGION
1. The Wire
13. Fargo
3. South Park
2. The Office
MUH QUEEN REGION
1. Game of Thrones
4. Peaky Blinders
3. M*A*S*H
10. Cheers
1. Breaking Bad
4. Scrubs
11. Batman: The Animated Series
3. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
2. The Simpsons
WOMEN DONT RESPECT SALAD EATERS REGION
1. Seinfeld
5. Twilight Zone
3. Stranger Things
2. Sopranos
OMAR DEVINTE LITTLE REGION
1. The Wire
13. Fargo
3. South Park
2. The Office
MUH QUEEN REGION
1. Game of Thrones
4. Peaky Blinders
3. M*A*S*H
10. Cheers
Posted on 2/27/20 at 4:40 pm to iwyLSUiwy
Damn shame The Office and Archer had to face off in the first round.
quote:
COOKING WITH METH 101 REGION
1. Breaking Bad
9. Arrested Development
5. Battlestar Galactica
4. Scrubs
11. Batman: The Animated Series
3. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
10. I Love Lucy
2. The Simpsons
WOMEN DONT RESPECT SALAD EATERS REGION
1. Seinfeld
9. The Americans
5. Twilight Zone
4. LOST
6. Mad Men
3. Stranger Things
7. All in the Family
2. Sopranos
OMAR DEVINTE LITTLE REGION
1. The Wire
8. The Andy Griffith Show
5. Parks and Recreation
13. Fargo
6. Curb Your Enthusiasm
3. South Park
10. Archer
2. The Office
MUH QUEEN REGION
1. Game of Thrones
8. The Shield
5. Friends
4. Peaky Blinders
6. Frasier
3. M*A*S*H
7. The X-Files
10. Cheers
Posted on 2/27/20 at 4:50 pm to iwyLSUiwy
COOKING WITH METH 101 REGION
1. Breaking Bad 9. Arrested Development
5. Battlestar Galactica 4. Scrubs
11. Batman: The Animated Series 3. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
10. I Love Lucy 2. The Simpsons
WOMEN DONT RESPECT SALAD EATERS REGION
1. Seinfeld 9. The Americans
5. Twilight Zone 4. LOST
6. Mad Men 3. Stranger Things
7. All in the Family 2. Sopranos
OMAR DEVINTE LITTLE REGION
1. The Wire 8. The Andy Griffith Show
5. Parks and Recreation 13. Fargo w
6. Curb Your Enthusiasm 3. South Park
10. Archer 2. The Office
MUH QUEEN REGION
1. Game of Thrones 8. The Shield
5. Friends 4. Peaky Blinders
6. Frasier3. M*A*S*H
7. The X-Files 10. Cheers
1. Breaking Bad 9. Arrested Development
5. Battlestar Galactica 4. Scrubs
11. Batman: The Animated Series 3. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
10. I Love Lucy 2. The Simpsons
WOMEN DONT RESPECT SALAD EATERS REGION
1. Seinfeld 9. The Americans
5. Twilight Zone 4. LOST
6. Mad Men 3. Stranger Things
7. All in the Family 2. Sopranos
OMAR DEVINTE LITTLE REGION
1. The Wire 8. The Andy Griffith Show
5. Parks and Recreation 13. Fargo w
6. Curb Your Enthusiasm 3. South Park
10. Archer 2. The Office
MUH QUEEN REGION
1. Game of Thrones 8. The Shield
5. Friends 4. Peaky Blinders
6. Frasier3. M*A*S*H
7. The X-Files 10. Cheers
This post was edited on 2/27/20 at 4:51 pm
Posted on 2/27/20 at 5:09 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
With that show in particular though, it had 4 of the greatest seasons in TV history, two pretty good seasons, one meh and one outright bad.
But why were the 4 great, then the rest not so great and bad? Then why should that matter, and then still - How can that be "The best," or at least "Why" is something with such flaws the best?
quote:
Compare that to another show like The Newsroom (just picking a random show I like), who had three really good seasons and wrapped the show up nicely. What is more impressive?
Such is the question.
I'll be honest, I do like that you do these, this is just be hemming and hawing because I think some people do try their hardest to be objective "this thing IS actually good, it's not that I just like it," or "this thing does actually deserve the credit it gets," but most just say "I like GoT, so that wins." Like I said, just different, and "Best" is the issue. Plus, in a tournament style with voting and a chaotic measuring stick - this will just come down to GoT beating everything...for no reason other than it being popular. I have my hopes in The Wire somehow overcoming BB and GoT...it is the more complete show by leaps and bounds...but that probably won't happen. quote:
Sure The Newsroom was good all the way through, but who's to say that if it went a couple more seasons that it wouldnt turn into crap. That's tough to say.
I mean, I would never take unfilmed seasons as part of a measurement. If Newsroom is a complete experience that perfectly achieves its goals, that pushes TV forward or is important to its genre, and was well acted and directed, it very well may deserve that kind of title.
Posted on 2/27/20 at 5:25 pm to iwyLSUiwy
COOKING WITH METH 101 REGION
1. Breaking Bad
9. Arrested Development
5. Battlestar Galactica
4. Scrubs
11. Batman: The Animated Series
3. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
10. I Love Lucy
2. The Simpsons
WOMEN DONT RESPECT SALAD EATERS REGION
1. Seinfeld
9. The Americans
5. Twilight Zone
4. LOST
6. Mad Men
3. Stranger Things
7. All in the Family
2. Sopranos
OMAR DEVINTE LITTLE REGION
1. The Wire
8. The Andy Griffith Show
5. Parks and Recreation
13. Fargo
6. Curb Your Enthusiasm
3. South Park
10. Archer
2. The Office
MUH QUEEN REGION
1. Game of Thrones
8. The Shield
5. Friends
4. Peaky Blinders
6. Frasier
3. M*A*S*H
7. The X-Files
10. Cheers
1. Breaking Bad
9. Arrested Development
5. Battlestar Galactica
4. Scrubs
11. Batman: The Animated Series
3. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
10. I Love Lucy
2. The Simpsons
WOMEN DONT RESPECT SALAD EATERS REGION
1. Seinfeld
9. The Americans
5. Twilight Zone
4. LOST
6. Mad Men
3. Stranger Things
7. All in the Family
2. Sopranos
OMAR DEVINTE LITTLE REGION
1. The Wire
8. The Andy Griffith Show
5. Parks and Recreation
13. Fargo
6. Curb Your Enthusiasm
3. South Park
10. Archer
2. The Office
MUH QUEEN REGION
1. Game of Thrones
8. The Shield
5. Friends
4. Peaky Blinders
6. Frasier
3. M*A*S*H
7. The X-Files
10. Cheers
Posted on 2/27/20 at 7:15 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
It's just that most people don't try to separate their objective "I like this thing," from "This thing is actually good." "Best" and "Favorite" lists are different animals.
I agree with this. But I wouldn’t be so quick to just pencil in GoT in the final four. Most people on here were furious with the last 1-2 seasons
Posted on 2/28/20 at 6:43 am to DaTruth225
COOKING WITH METH 101 REGION
1. Breaking Bad
9. Arrested Development
5. Battlestar Galactica
4. Scrubs
11. Batman: The Animated Series
3. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
10. I Love Lucy
2. The Simpsons
WOMEN DONT RESPECT SALAD EATERS REGION
1. Seinfeld
9. The Americans
5. Twilight Zone
4. LOST
6. Mad Men
3. Stranger Things
7. All in the Family
2. Sopranos
OMAR DEVINTE LITTLE REGION
1. The Wire
8. The Andy Griffith Show
5. Parks and Recreation
13. Fargo
6. Curb Your Enthusiasm
3. South Park
10. Archer
2. The Office
MUH QUEEN REGION
1. Game of Thrones
8. The Shield
5. Friends
4. Peaky Blinders
6. Frasier
3. M*A*S*H
7. The X-Files
10. Cheers
1. Breaking Bad
9. Arrested Development
5. Battlestar Galactica
4. Scrubs
11. Batman: The Animated Series
3. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
10. I Love Lucy
2. The Simpsons
WOMEN DONT RESPECT SALAD EATERS REGION
1. Seinfeld
9. The Americans
5. Twilight Zone
4. LOST
6. Mad Men
3. Stranger Things
7. All in the Family
2. Sopranos
OMAR DEVINTE LITTLE REGION
1. The Wire
8. The Andy Griffith Show
5. Parks and Recreation
13. Fargo
6. Curb Your Enthusiasm
3. South Park
10. Archer
2. The Office
MUH QUEEN REGION
1. Game of Thrones
8. The Shield
5. Friends
4. Peaky Blinders
6. Frasier
3. M*A*S*H
7. The X-Files
10. Cheers
Posted on 2/28/20 at 7:25 am to iwyLSUiwy
COOKING WITH METH 101 REGION
1. Breaking Bad
9. Arrested Development
5. Battlestar Galactica
4. Scrubs
11. Batman: The Animated Series
3. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
10. I Love Lucy
2. The Simpsons
WOMEN DONT RESPECT SALAD EATERS REGION
1. Seinfeld
9. The Americans
5. Twilight Zone
4. LOST
6. Mad Men
3. Stranger Things
7. All in the Family
2. Sopranos
OMAR DEVINTE LITTLE REGION
1. The Wire
8. The Andy Griffith Show
5. Parks and Recreation
13. Fargo
6. Curb Your Enthusiasm
3. South Park
10. Archer
2. The Office
MUH QUEEN REGION
1. Game of Thrones
8. The Shield
5. Friends
4. Peaky Blinders
6. Frasier
3. M*A*S*H
7. The X-Files
10. Cheers
1. Breaking Bad
9. Arrested Development
5. Battlestar Galactica
4. Scrubs
11. Batman: The Animated Series
3. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
10. I Love Lucy
2. The Simpsons
WOMEN DONT RESPECT SALAD EATERS REGION
1. Seinfeld
9. The Americans
5. Twilight Zone
4. LOST
6. Mad Men
3. Stranger Things
7. All in the Family
2. Sopranos
OMAR DEVINTE LITTLE REGION
1. The Wire
8. The Andy Griffith Show
5. Parks and Recreation
13. Fargo
6. Curb Your Enthusiasm
3. South Park
10. Archer
2. The Office
MUH QUEEN REGION
1. Game of Thrones
8. The Shield
5. Friends
4. Peaky Blinders
6. Frasier
3. M*A*S*H
7. The X-Files
10. Cheers
Posted on 2/28/20 at 7:36 am to iwyLSUiwy
COOKING WITH METH 101 REGION
1. Breaking Bad
9. Arrested Development
5. Battlestar Galactica
4. Scrubs
11. Batman: The Animated Series
3. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
10. I Love Lucy
2. The Simpsons
WOMEN DONT RESPECT SALAD EATERS REGION
1. Seinfeld
9. The Americans
5. Twilight Zone
4. LOST
6. Mad Men
3. Stranger Things
7. All in the Family
2. Sopranos
OMAR DEVINTE LITTLE REGION
1. The Wire
8. The Andy Griffith Show
5. Parks and Recreation
13. Fargo
6. Curb Your Enthusiasm
3. South Park
10. Archer
2. The Office
MUH QUEEN REGION
1. Game of Thrones
8. The Shield
5. Friends
4. Peaky Blinders
6. Frasier
3. M*A*S*H
7. The X-Files
10. Cheers
No vote on the ones that I havent seen enough of one of the shows to form an opinion on.
1. Breaking Bad
9. Arrested Development
5. Battlestar Galactica
4. Scrubs
11. Batman: The Animated Series
3. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
10. I Love Lucy
2. The Simpsons
WOMEN DONT RESPECT SALAD EATERS REGION
1. Seinfeld
9. The Americans
5. Twilight Zone
4. LOST
6. Mad Men
3. Stranger Things
7. All in the Family
2. Sopranos
OMAR DEVINTE LITTLE REGION
1. The Wire
8. The Andy Griffith Show
5. Parks and Recreation
13. Fargo
6. Curb Your Enthusiasm
3. South Park
10. Archer
2. The Office
MUH QUEEN REGION
1. Game of Thrones
8. The Shield
5. Friends
4. Peaky Blinders
6. Frasier
3. M*A*S*H
7. The X-Files
10. Cheers
No vote on the ones that I havent seen enough of one of the shows to form an opinion on.
Posted on 2/28/20 at 7:47 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
I Love Lucy over Justified by 2.
frick this tournament
Posted on 2/28/20 at 9:26 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
COOKING WITH METH 101 REGION
1. Breaking Bad
9. Arrested Development
5. Battlestar Galactica
4. Scrubs
11. Batman: The Animated Series
3. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
WOMEN DONT RESPECT SALAD EATERS REGION
6. Mad Men
3. Stranger Things (Steve > all of Mad Men, which gets so repetitive)
OMAR DEVINTE LITTLE REGION
5. Parks and Recreation
13. Fargo
6. Curb Your Enthusiasm
3. South Park
10. Archer (never thought I'd vote against Archer rd 32, ran up against the greatest comedy of my generation imo)
2. The Office
MUH QUEEN REGION
1. Game of Thrones
8. The Shield (seen both, don't care)
5. Friends
4. Peaky Blinders
Posted on 2/28/20 at 9:34 am to iwyLSUiwy
I feel like I need to change my GOT/Shield vote to a non-vote. I've seen 2 seasons of the Shield, but I never finished the show.
That said, my GOT vote was largely based on season's 1-6, much like any Dexter vote would have been largely based on Season's 1-4. Each are some of the most re-watchable seasons of any TV show imo.
Oddly enough, BrBa, which is a top 5 show of all time imo...not all that re-watchable. I still found myself stressed out over Walt's decision making, even though I knew what happened in the end. Amazing show, but not the most re-watchable
That said, my GOT vote was largely based on season's 1-6, much like any Dexter vote would have been largely based on Season's 1-4. Each are some of the most re-watchable seasons of any TV show imo.
Oddly enough, BrBa, which is a top 5 show of all time imo...not all that re-watchable. I still found myself stressed out over Walt's decision making, even though I knew what happened in the end. Amazing show, but not the most re-watchable
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