re: Game of Thrones Season 5 - Episode 8 :"Hardhome" Readers Thread (Spoilers)

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Bamatab

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You could well be right about the reasoning for the "For The Watch" actions. The show has certainly hit us over the head with the Ollie hammer enough and Ollie's main beef is clearly the Wildlings.

Still, I hope the attack is not motivated solely by letting the Wildlings through. That would take away so much of the complexity of the scene and the fact that the stabbers were justified in their own way and Jon brought it on himself in a very real way (which also makes it more powerful that he fulfills the "till I die" part of the vow by being "killed).

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Stribger Bill - "I think Stannis and Jon Snow are both going to die. Mel is going to burn Shireen to bring back Azor Ahi. Jon Wakes up"

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Id be good with that.

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As far as his stabbing is concerned, that isn't any different than him allowing the wildlings to pass through the wall. That doesn't alter the situation at all.

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There is a difference with allowing the hundred or so survivors of the battle at Castle Black that are already across the wall to live (although there are still quite a few of the NW that don't like that at all), than letting over 5,000 more come across. The NW will be vastly outnumbered once the 5,000+ are let across.

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Irrelevant. His "bond" is meaningless. Nothing but his willful departure from the NW is grounds for his execution. Whether it's Arya, Sansa, Theon, etc., it makes no difference.

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His "bond" with Arya was not irrelevant in the books. It was a major reason for him giving up the NW.

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No they won't, because they have no legal reason to. It has to be because of the letter, when he breaks his vows.

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Why do you think there has to be a "legal" reason for a select few to turn on Jon? D&D have already setup that there is a portion of the NW that hates the idea of the Wildlings being allowed across the wall with Ollie's creepy stare downs of Jon and his talk with Sam, the NW guys trying to rape Gilly, and Alliser's talk with Jon before Jon left for Hardhome. Heck, the only enemy the NW has known for thousands of years have been the Wildlings. It's not hard to believe that some of them would want no part of the Wildlings to be let across the wall.

Look, that is just how I think D&D are setting it up. If they decide to hold off on Jon's death until next season, then I could see them using the letter. But if they do it this year like most people think, I think they have waited a late to set up the whole letter sequence.

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How many episodes do y'all think Jon will be in a coma for? 1? 3? 5?

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I'm not sure, but the more I think about it the more I realize how much work they have left to do if they are going to do Jon's "death" right. They need to set up some of his warging into Ghost. They need to move Mel back to the Wall. They need to have some kind of battle that would justify someone sending the letter (unless Bamatab is right). They probably need Sansa and Theon to escape.

I'm starting to wonder if we will even see daggers in the dark this season - unless it's a cliffhanger at the very end.

I can't take credit for this, but someone on one of the message boards (can't remember if it was Tower of the Hand or Watchers on the Wall) has brought up the dreaded "moat" strategy from Walking Dead:

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May 31, 2015, 10:05 PM EDT
LadysGhost says...
That was fantastic! So, white walkers can't swim? Everybody just needs a really big moat?

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If they hold off until next season, then I agree with you and Blueboy that the letter will come into effect. But I just don't see them being able to set up the whole letter sequence with only two episodes left.

Yes! And he was not moving the boat very fast for someone being chased by zombies. But it's possible all those boats had a covered up driver. I'm gonna go back and watch again tonight.

I'm really hoping that they leave the stabbing alone this season and move it to episode 9 of next year. They could easily let the looming war build up next year while letting the wall prepare in the background. They could let the wildlings settle the other towers like in the book while not chewing up much screen time. Problem is that they have rushed stories surrounding jon's stabbing at this point.

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The show has definitely set it up to Jon being stabbed because of his alliance with the Wildlings.

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given Jon and sansa relatively more rigid relationship this make sense.

I am also guessing Sam already knows about the Sansa/Ramsey wedding and withheld that info from Jon.

However, How can anyone doubt Jon after what just happened with the attack on haedhorne? It seems to me that the wildlings would fall in line after that. Then whatever nights watchmen were there would the other homies know that shite has gotten real.

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I want to read this thread so bad, but I still need to watch the episode tonight!!!!

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Tonight? Freaking tonight? What the hell are you waiting for. Tell your boss you have the small pox, and get home now and watch it.



But seriously, tell your boss you are dying, and go home and watch it.

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However, How can anyone doubt Jon after what just happened with the attack on haedhorne? It seems to me that the wildlings would fall in line after that. Then whatever nights watchmen were there would the other homies know that shite has gotten real.

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I think if the stabbing happens this season, it'll be immediately after Jon walks through the gate of the Wall, before anyone has a chance to tell them what went down in Hardhome. I think once Eddison tells them what actually happened in Hardhome, the NW that participates in Jon's stabbing will immediately regret their actions.