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Message
re: Amazon put out a "superfans" video about LOTR: Rings of Power
Posted on 2/24/22 at 1:20 pm to SammyTiger
Posted on 2/24/22 at 1:20 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
They absolutely are trying to market this show to as many people as possible.
And have instead done the opposite.
0
Posted on 2/24/22 at 1:25 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
How important are the characters being white to the narrative and themes of the work?
That's the wrong question. I think you have to ask what value does changing the characters into blacks or other minorities bring to the story? Your own answer, that they are only cosmetic changes, leads one to conclude that there is no value added. So why do it? The other part of this is the assumption that these characters being white is somehow harmful to POC. And that POC cannot enjoy stories that have primarily white characters in them. Why not? I can watch any number of movies or shows with primarily black casts, such as The Cosby Show, The Jeffersons, A Different World, for example, and not even think twice about the racial makeup of the stars. What causes Hollywood to think that POC are so fragile that they have to see people that look like them on tv shows? It's disingenuous pandering, at best. Because Hollywood doesn't really support black creativity, they take properties they see as being primarily white and then slap a black face on it and call it progress. If you want a black Lord of the Rings, then have some black artist write something that fits the bill.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 1:29 pm to Saint Alfonzo
quote:
That's the wrong question. I think you have to ask what value does changing the characters into blacks or other minorities bring to the story?
If race isn’t important to the story than how can you be upset about the casting based on race.
So why is it important?
If it’s not than you can cast anyone.
quote:
The other part of this is the assumption that these characters being white is somehow harmful to POC. And that POC cannot enjoy stories that have primarily white characters in them. Why not?
The answer is that everyone enjoys seeing someone like themselves in stories.
This board loses its shite every time A white character is cast with a black actor.
Imagine no white characters in all major franchises. They just wouldn’t be major franchises.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 1:31 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
The answer is that everyone enjoys seeing someone like themselves in stories.
Then write them.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 1:34 pm to SammyTiger
I see a lot of debate about race here, but I thought that was just one of several issues LOTR fans have with this. I’m not an expert, but from what I’ve heard, the other major issues are:
1. Condensing thousands of years of history into a condensed timeline
2. Galadrial getting a character overhaul versus the books.
3. Types of people (hobbits and wizards) who shouldn’t have been around in the time frame being in the show.
4. Amazons “super fans” talking about diversity and inclusion for five minutes before even mentioning a single character’s name. Which indicates “the message” is more important than the narrative.
That’s without going back and researching.
Point being that framing the issues fans have as “cosmetic” or “racial” is wrong. You’re setting up a straw man.
1. Condensing thousands of years of history into a condensed timeline
2. Galadrial getting a character overhaul versus the books.
3. Types of people (hobbits and wizards) who shouldn’t have been around in the time frame being in the show.
4. Amazons “super fans” talking about diversity and inclusion for five minutes before even mentioning a single character’s name. Which indicates “the message” is more important than the narrative.
That’s without going back and researching.
Point being that framing the issues fans have as “cosmetic” or “racial” is wrong. You’re setting up a straw man.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 1:48 pm to SammyTiger
quote:Avatar the Last Airbender had only Asian characters.
Imagine no white characters in all major franchises. They just wouldn’t be major franchises.
It was one of the most successful cartoons of all time.
The live action show will have zero white people.
Fans of the show would be absolutely furious if they cast white people, which is one of the reasons everyone hated the M Night movie.
They are knocking the casting out of the park and it is expected to be a huge franchise.
The point is, it can be a completely unimportant thing, when it is allowed to simply be an unimportant thing.
This post was edited on 2/24/22 at 1:53 pm
Posted on 2/24/22 at 1:54 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
It might help draw in new viewers to what is an excellent IP.
Because only white people currently like Tolkien?
You're being disingenuous here.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 1:58 pm to GeauxTigerTM
You’re being disingenuous if you think it doesn’t widen the audience.
Yes black people like Tolkien. But not all black people and not all white people. The point is to get more people to watch.
Plus there are quality actors and actresses out there that will keep getting shut out of good roles if you keep saying “sorry go write you own massively popular literary classic”
Yes black people like Tolkien. But not all black people and not all white people. The point is to get more people to watch.
Plus there are quality actors and actresses out there that will keep getting shut out of good roles if you keep saying “sorry go write you own massively popular literary classic”
This post was edited on 2/24/22 at 2:00 pm
Posted on 2/24/22 at 2:02 pm to SammyTiger
quote:Yes, but how many times must we see them “broaden appeal” at the expense of the core fans, resulting in an absolute shite product?
You’re being disingenuous if you think it doesn’t widen the audience.
If you just make a good product, fans will come.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 2:03 pm to Scruffy
quote:
Fans of the show would be absolutely furious if they cast white people, which is one of the reasons everyone hated the M Night movie.
My daughter got into the Avatar and she wanted to watch the movie. That was the first thing out of her mouth, "They don't look like Katara and Sokka!". She gave up on the movie pretty quickly.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 2:05 pm to Scruffy
quote:
Yes, but how many times must we see them “broaden appeal” at the expense of the core fans, resulting in an absolute shite product?
Nothing overcomes bad writing.
The new Star Wars trilogy sucked. I don’t think the black storm trooper is why. Or even the fact that the lead was a woman. It was all just poorly written.
But the Mandalorian’s cast is extremely diverse and it kicked arse.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 2:09 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
If race isn’t important to the story than how can you be upset about the casting based on race.
Who said I was upset?
quote:
The answer is that everyone enjoys seeing someone like themselves in stories.
I have never watched a tv or film and felt better about viewing it because there was a white person in it. Truth be told, I rarely see people like me in films. That would be something new.
quote:
This board loses its shite every time A white character is cast with a black actor.
What is the point of race swapping black actors into white roles? If race is not important, why do it? It's the lazy way to promote diversity on the surface only. They won't promote new and original black projects, but they will put Superman in blackface.
quote:
Imagine no white characters in all major franchises. They just wouldn’t be major franchises.
Make black movie franchises that have universal appeal. Bad Boys has done pretty well over the years.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 2:09 pm to SammyTiger
quote:And that is what happens when you make SJW aspects the most important component, exactly what we are seeing here and have seen in the past.
Nothing overcomes bad writing.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 2:12 pm to Scruffy
quote:
And that is what happens when you make SJW aspects the most important component, exactly what we are seeing here and have seen in the past.
It’s what you’re worried about
If the black characters bring some kind of BLM story line to Middle Earth I agree That wouldn’t be fun at all.
What if they just act like it’s normal and go about their business. That’s not uncommon in British shoes where they have diverse casting. Even in period pieces.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 2:13 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
The point is to get more people to watch.
If you can’t watch something because of the race of character (note I didn’t say actor….the race of the character should dictate the race of the actor) then the show ain’t for you. Don’t get to demand that an Italian restaurant cook Jamaican food.
Go watch something else.
This post was edited on 2/24/22 at 2:15 pm
Posted on 2/24/22 at 2:15 pm to Saint Alfonzo
The first thing you said in this thread was that everything worked turns into shite.
You’re upset.
“They don’t have any white conservatives in movies!”
Like this is about promoting anew original Al white project? It probably has occurred to you that black actors may want to be on these roles too. There is nothing superficial to this to them. That’s a real job.
And the original LOTR was lily white, and I loved it. So it really doesn’t matter to me. But this is something new and the characters and narrative are less established. They are definitely going to have to take creative liberties to make
It a narrative TV show.
You’re upset.
quote:
I have never watched a tv or film and felt better about viewing it because there was a white person in it. Truth be told, I rarely see people like me in films. That would be something new.
“They don’t have any white conservatives in movies!”
quote:
What is the point of race swapping black actors into white roles? If race is not important, why do it? It's the lazy way to promote diversity on the surface only. They won't promote new and original black projects, but they will put Superman in blackface.
Like this is about promoting anew original Al white project? It probably has occurred to you that black actors may want to be on these roles too. There is nothing superficial to this to them. That’s a real job.
And the original LOTR was lily white, and I loved it. So it really doesn’t matter to me. But this is something new and the characters and narrative are less established. They are definitely going to have to take creative liberties to make
It a narrative TV show.
This post was edited on 2/24/22 at 2:17 pm
Posted on 2/24/22 at 2:16 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
It probably has occurred to you that black actors may want to be on these roles too.
Lol.
What does them wanting them have to do with anything? Boo hoo.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 2:17 pm to Hester Carries
quote:
Lol. What does them wanting them have to do with anything? Boo hoo.
You’re laughing at them, but they have the roles.
You’re the one crying about it online.
So hoo fricking boo, snowflake
This post was edited on 2/24/22 at 2:18 pm
Posted on 2/24/22 at 2:20 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
You’re laughing at them, but they have the roles. You’re the one crying about it online. So hoo fricking boo, snowflake
You think this is a point. It’s not.
A thing occurring isn’t somehow justification for it occurring. I mean what???
I understand they want it and are getting the roles. And I have a problem with it. That’s the whole premise of this discussion.
“Why do you care?” Is always the last line of argument for “activists”. So way to go
This post was edited on 2/24/22 at 2:23 pm
Posted on 2/24/22 at 2:21 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
The answer is that everyone enjoys seeing someone like themselves in stories.
This board loses its shite every time A white character is cast with a black actor.
Imagine no white characters in all major franchises. They just wouldn’t be major franchises.
No, this is the point of view of the activists currently in control of all of these properties. If were true, LOTR would never have been popular enough to warrant being bought by Amazon.
As as has been said before, nothing but lack of creativity is keeping anyone from writing new stories which can feature whatever intersectional characters they may want to include. No one is keeping creators from doing that. Instead, they are targeting known and popular franchises and then gutting them to fit their own image.
This was a great explanation of this tread from July of last year.
The Progressive Skinsuit
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