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re: USFL new rule: fumble out of bounds in end zone: offense retains possession

Posted on 4/13/23 at 9:36 pm to
Posted by LSUGrad9295
Baton Rouge
Member since May 2007
37938 posts
Posted on 4/13/23 at 9:36 pm to
quote:

Pretty simple really. If the first baseman drops a throw, the runner is safe. There must be a "catch" to be an out.

What about a bunted foul third "strike"?




I believe that is the "exception to the rule", kinda like in college football where the holder on field goals is allowed to have a knee on the ground and not be "down"
Posted by diat150
Louisiana
Member since Jun 2005
47810 posts
Posted on 4/13/23 at 9:42 pm to
quote:

Are those not exciting plays when a dude is diving for the pylon with defenders coming at him?


Yes because you know he has to maintain possession. Its high stakes.
Posted by Wayne Campbell
Aurora, IL
Member since Oct 2011
7326 posts
Posted on 4/14/23 at 7:13 am to
quote:

they get a do-over? Not penalized at all for fumbling? Hell naw.


As has already been pointed out ITT, the offense can fumble the ball out of bounds anywhere else on the field without being “penalized.”
Posted by bamameister
Right here, right now
Member since May 2016
17202 posts
Posted on 4/14/23 at 7:46 am to
quote:

quote:
The USFL has made a rule change that every league should adopt. The team that fumbles the ball out of the back of the end zone will retain possession and the ball will be spotted at the spot of the fumble. It won't be a turnover and a touchback, as is the case in other leagues.


Would someone please ask Nathaniel Peat what he thinks of the new rule?
Posted by SteveLSU35
Shreveport
Member since Mar 2004
15076 posts
Posted on 4/14/23 at 8:11 am to
The fumble into the endzone, turnover, and touch back rule is one of the dumbest rules in sports.

How does a team lose possession of the ball when the other team never gains it? Put the ball on the 5 and roll.
Posted by TU Rob
Birmingham
Member since Nov 2008
13478 posts
Posted on 4/14/23 at 8:36 am to
quote:

fumbles the ball out of the back of the end zone will retain possession


So is it only out of the back of the endzone? What if it goes out the side of the endzone? Defense awarded the ball on that? Just trying to imagine the scenario where the ball carrier is running towards the endzone and gets the ball punched out, it goes bouncing around and is in the air as it crosses out of bounds at the back corner of the endzone, and we're looking at super slo-mo replays to determine if it crossed the sideline or the end line while in the air.

Posted by Oilfieldbiology
Member since Nov 2016
42309 posts
Posted on 4/14/23 at 8:56 am to
quote:

Pretty simple really. If the first baseman drops a throw, the runner is safe. There must be a "catch" to be an out. So if catcher drops strike 3, he has to throw to the base for the out.


History and evolution of the dripped 3rd strike rule
Posted by Nutriaitch
Montegut
Member since Apr 2008
10923 posts
Posted on 4/14/23 at 9:19 am to
quote:


So, you fumble out at the opponents 1 yard line, you keep the ball at the one.
Fumble out at midfield, you get it at midfield.
Is one of those 2 examples of fumbles different than the other? Should there be the same accountability?




commit holding at the 5 yard line and you get penalized "half the distance"
commit holding in the end zone, and your opponents gets 2 points, plus you have to kick the ball to them.

catch the ball at the 15 yard line, you get the ball at the 15 yard line
catch the ball in the end zone, you get 6 points.



the rules for damn near every other play in football are different in the end zone vs in the field of play.
but for some reason, people lose their freaking minds when it's a fumble.


Posted by TheGasMan
Member since Oct 2014
3485 posts
Posted on 4/14/23 at 9:38 am to
quote:

but for some reason, people lose their freaking minds when it's a fumble.

That’s most of the smooth brains in this thread.
Posted by SteelerBravesDawg
Member since Sep 2020
43337 posts
Posted on 4/14/23 at 9:38 am to
So you wanna reward the offense for fricking up?

Got it.
Posted by WestCoastAg
Member since Oct 2012
150154 posts
Posted on 4/14/23 at 9:41 am to
quote:

So they get a do-over? Not penalized at all for fumbling? Hell naw.

why stop at fumble? Why not make every single incompletion that goes out the back of the endzone an interception? The offense wasnt careful with the ball and should be punished
Posted by The Boat
Member since Oct 2008
177373 posts
Posted on 4/14/23 at 9:42 am to
quote:

and why not? if it happens anywhere else on the field the ball is returned to where it was fumbled from.

There’s something different and special about the endzone but I can’t seem to place my finger on it…
Posted by SteelerBravesDawg
Member since Sep 2020
43337 posts
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:10 am to
quote:

There’s something different and special about the endzone but I can’t seem to place my finger on it…

Exactly.

This thread has proven that
1.Most people on here are smooth-brains.

2.Those same people have never picked up a rulebook in their lives.
Posted by East Coast Band
Member since Nov 2010
66950 posts
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:26 am to
quote:

So you wanna reward the offense for fricking up?



But you do want to reward the defense for almost fricking up.
Stop the offense back at the 5 and he fumbles out of bounds, defense has to start next play defending from the 5.
But let him come within inches of scoring, then he fumbles across the end zone out of bounds and the defense is awarded possession.

Got it
Posted by WestCoastAg
Member since Oct 2012
150154 posts
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:34 am to
Why does no one feel like we should punish the offense when they throw the ball out the back of the endzone?
Posted by Bunk Moreland
Member since Dec 2010
68493 posts
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:41 am to
I hate that gay reasoning, but this article made me laugh.
quote:

Sometimes it’s OK to admit when you’re wrong.

For years, I’ve hated the infamous fumble-through-the-end-zone, lose-the-ball play. I’ve called it the worst rule in football, because man, it sure seems terrible. You get that close to the end zone, you make one mistake and you lose everything? That ain’t right!

So when the Cleveland Browns’ Rashard Higgins reached out toward the pylon in last weekend’s game against the Kansas City Chiefs, only to fumble away the ball, possession and a good chunk of Cleveland’s hopes, I was the living version of that Leo DiCaprio-pointing-at-the-TV gif, all full of righteous rage. And I wasn’t alone.

Only this time, I didn’t take a flamethrower to my house. I did what we probably all should do in these situations: I consulted some NFL rules experts. And what I found was that the “worst rule in football” … isn’t so bad after all.

quote:

The sacred end zone

The end zone, in football, is a quasi-mystical creation, infinitely high and, in rulebooks past, infinitely broad. Its quirks don’t always make sense — you score a touchdown if the ball just brushes the front of the end zone plane, but a receiver who catches the ball entirely within the end zone must get both feet down to also get a touchdown. A rusher who somehow landed feet-first in the end zone but with the ball outside of it would not get a touchdown, but a receiver with both feet in and the ball outside the back of the end zone would.

Let’s put that aside for a second while we focus on this particular rule. “It comes back to the core objective of the game, back to the 1870s,” says Ben Austro, editor-in-chief of the all-things-officiating website Football Zebras. “Defend the goal. Do not allow the offense to penetrate the goal with the ball.”

Whatever else is going on when a player fumbles the ball forward, we can all agree on this: the offense did not penetrate the goal with the ball. Rationalizations, philosophical arguments, poetic justifications … all of them are secondary to that fact.

quote:

The Impetus Rule

Because nothing is ever simple in football, there’s a philosophical-slash-legalistic construct known as the Impetus Rule. It’s the NFL rules version of you-break-it, you-bought-it, and it comes into play when the ball enters that mystical end zone.

“Impetus is the force that puts the ball into an end zone,” NFL head of officiating Dean Blandino said a few years back, speaking of this exact situation. “So if a team provides the impetus that puts a ball into their opponent’s end zone ... then they are responsible for it. They’re responsible for it. And if the ball gets out of bounds through the end zone then it is a touchback.”

In other words, if the offense burps up the ball into the end zone, it’s the responsibility of the offense — not the referees, not the rulebook and certainly not the defense — to get the ball back under control. If the offense can’t do that, too bad, so sad.

“Some say the NFL rule is too punitive, that the offense shouldn't lose possession in a situation like that,” says NFL historian Dan Daly. “But I kind of like the idea of the field being finite — and that when you fumble out of the end zone it's like it drops off the face of the earth. Gone forever. A fumble between the goal lines, that's different; you're still in the field of play. But they don't call it the end line for nothing.”


The worst rule in football isn't wrong at all.
Posted by WestCoastAg
Member since Oct 2012
150154 posts
Posted on 4/14/23 at 10:52 am to
quote:

“Impetus is the force that puts the ball into an end zone,” NFL head of officiating Dean Blandino said a few years back, speaking of this exact situation. “So if a team provides the impetus that puts a ball into their opponent’s end zone ... then they are responsible for it. They’re responsible for it. And if the ball gets out of bounds through the end zone then it is a touchback.”

In other words, if the offense burps up the ball into the end zone, it’s the responsibility of the offense — not the referees, not the rulebook and certainly not the defense — to get the ball back under control. If the offense can’t do that, too bad, so sad.

this doesnt make any sesne
Posted by SteelerBravesDawg
Member since Sep 2020
43337 posts
Posted on 4/14/23 at 11:27 am to
Sure it does.

Force is a really big concept in football.

What put the ball in the EZ? Force. What made the ball go out of the back of the EZ? A new force, of which Team A(offense) provided. This, the offense loses possession and a touchback is called and B(defense) gains possession.
Posted by WestCoastAg
Member since Oct 2012
150154 posts
Posted on 4/14/23 at 11:30 am to
quote:

What made the ball go out of the back of the EZ? A new force, of which Team A(offense) provided
why does this only apply to fumbles and not incompletions
Posted by SteelerBravesDawg
Member since Sep 2020
43337 posts
Posted on 4/14/23 at 11:30 am to
quote:

The Impetus Rule

Because nothing is ever simple in football, there’s a philosophical-slash-legalistic construct known as the Impetus Rule. It’s the NFL rules version of you-break-it, you-bought-it, and it comes into play when the ball enters that mystical end zone.

“Impetus is the force that puts the ball into an end zone,” NFL head of officiating Dean Blandino said a few years back, speaking of this exact situation. “So if a team provides the impetus that puts a ball into their opponent’s end zone ... then they are responsible for it. They’re responsible for it. And if the ball gets out of bounds through the end zone then it is a touchback.”

In other words, if the offense burps up the ball into the end zone, it’s the responsibility of the offense — not the referees, not the rulebook and certainly not the defense — to get the ball back under control. If the offense can’t do that, too bad, so sad.

“Some say the NFL rule is too punitive, that the offense shouldn't lose possession in a situation like that,” says NFL historian Dan Daly. “But I kind of like the idea of the field being finite — and that when you fumble out of the end zone it's like it drops off the face of the earth. Gone forever. A fumble between the goal lines, that's different; you're still in the field of play. But they don't call it the end line for nothing.”



Now watch multiple heads of posters ITT explode.
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