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re: Will bond vigilantes force the hand of the US government to finally curb spending?

Posted on 5/22/25 at 9:53 am to
Posted by GrapevineTigah
Grapevine, Texas
Member since Dec 2003
66 posts
Posted on 5/22/25 at 9:53 am to
A budget deficit can be corrected by either (or both) spending cuts and/or tax increases. It's clear that a democrat will lean towards tax increases and a republican will lean towards spending cuts. It's true that GDP growth will also bring in more revenue, but it appears that both parties have their heads in the sand in that all forms of budget balancing are likely going to be needed. Currently the bond market is not so silently saying that that tax cuts by the republicans are going to cause long term problems.
Posted by RoyalWe
Louisiana
Member since Mar 2018
4953 posts
Posted on 5/22/25 at 9:56 am to
quote:

Therefore we need to drive tax revenue up, since it's the only lever we got with our current govt
"We" should never be okay with this path. I'm already pissed off about how much tax I pay and you're saying the only solution is to raise my taxes? frick that.
Posted by UltimaParadox
North Carolina
Member since Nov 2008
52540 posts
Posted on 5/22/25 at 10:10 am to
quote:

That's not a fix. That's a signal to spend more because they have no issue with debt.


Instead just keep waiting for the leaders that will cut spending then
Posted by cusoonkpd
Big Mamou
Member since Apr 2015
1913 posts
Posted on 5/22/25 at 10:12 am to
Republicans do not lean toward spending cuts. That is bullshite.

As far as democrats, they are so corrupt, they have nothing to offer.
Posted by TxTiger82
Member since Sep 2004
34327 posts
Posted on 5/22/25 at 10:14 am to
quote:

a republican will lean towards spending cuts


Biggest myth in politics. Republicans haven't cut spending since HW.
Posted by wutangfinancial
Treasure Valley
Member since Sep 2015
11959 posts
Posted on 5/22/25 at 10:44 am to
quote:

What's the solution?


The only way out is a productivity revolution. And I’m not talking about the dumbasses who believe in the fantasy of the WEFs 4th Industrial Revolution where robots do all the work while we all get to live out our dreams of painting and learning an instrument and Netflix and Chill at night in 15 minute cities
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
59304 posts
Posted on 5/22/25 at 11:22 am to
quote:

People should stop buying treasury bonds no matter the rate to force spending cuts.

Would possibly be an effective form of protest on out of control govt spending


I don't necessarily disagree with that, but that's definitely an easier-said-than-done thing.

The largest single holder of federal debt is the federal government itself (agency trust funds). Cutting spending by enough to just balance the budget should mean a massive cut in how much the government trust funds buy, which I believe would drive yield demands higher (not sure how the direct sales of GAS impacts the amount of publicly auctioned debt). Federal government trust funds and agencies hold something like 21% of the current debt. If private investment would stop purchasing federal debt, that 21% would attrition out.

However, this would then mean the federal government would default in its debt as annual deficits have been outpacing interest payments for nearly 20 years in a row. In other words, we've been having to borrow more just to service current debt for a long time now. So in order to balance the budget, the funds Congress would be able to spend would need to be no more than expected revenues MINUS debt servicing. What this would look like is:

2024 total spending: $6.75T
2024 total revenues: $4.92
2024 total debt servicing: $939.9B (rounding up to $940B for easy math)

Remove debt servicing from the equation and setting it aside looks like this:

*total spending: $5.81T
*total revenues: $3.98T

In order to balance that budget without defaulting on the debt would mean cutting every other bit of spending by ~31.5%. That's cutting Medicare, Section 8, highway funds, military salaries and benefits, VA funding, buying paper for the copier at any random USDA office, etc. by nearly 1/3. That sort of cuts guarantees that if it passed, anyone voting for it would never be re-elected again. This would be a huge move which would alter the economic landscape of the entire country (and possibly the world). Those are the reasons why the USD will crash under the weight of its own debt before that sort of change could happen.
Posted by BCreed1
Alabama
Member since Jan 2024
6994 posts
Posted on 5/22/25 at 11:37 am to
quote:

Instead just keep waiting for the leaders that will cut spending then


Instead keep voting out the pretenders.
Posted by AUin02
Member since Jan 2012
4576 posts
Posted on 5/22/25 at 11:45 am to
Yearly tax revenue has increased 2.18x, from 2.03T in 2000 to 4.44T in 2023.

Meanwhile, yearly spending has gone up 3.4x, from 1.79T in 2000 to 6.19T in 2023.

We're not going to be able to tax our way out of this.
Posted by BCreed1
Alabama
Member since Jan 2024
6994 posts
Posted on 5/22/25 at 11:48 am to
1.6 trillion cut in this bill
Posted by mmmmmbeeer
ATL
Member since Nov 2014
10189 posts
Posted on 5/22/25 at 12:55 pm to
quote:

and a republican will lean towards spending cuts


It's no longer 2015. GOP is as guilty as any dem when it comes to spending.

This shite that was passed in the House last night tells you all you need to know about where the GOP, who are long past being any semblance of financially conservative, stands.

The last time spending was reined in effectively? Sequestration under Obama with a GOP Congress.
Posted by cusoonkpd
Big Mamou
Member since Apr 2015
1913 posts
Posted on 5/22/25 at 12:55 pm to
There is nothing cut in this bill. There is a promise to reduce the amount of future increase in spending.
Posted by hubreb
Member since Nov 2008
2132 posts
Posted on 5/22/25 at 1:15 pm to
10 year was at 4.99 in Oct '23, 4.70 April '24 and 4.79 Jan '25 - average of 4.24 over last 2 years - currently at 4.55

long bond was at 5.11 in Oct '23, 4.89 in April '24, 4.97 in Jan '25 - average of 4.44 over last 2 years....5.06 right now

quit listening to media talk about rates - they are nothing but fear porn. having worked in fixed income for 27 years we aren't seeing anything out of the norm like we have in past turbulent times
Posted by David_DJS
Member since Aug 2005
22765 posts
Posted on 5/22/25 at 1:35 pm to
quote:

1.6 trillion cut in this bill

How much is spent in FY26? Is it less than what'll end up being spent in FY25?

Posted by SquatchDawg
Cohutta Wilderness
Member since Sep 2012
20127 posts
Posted on 5/22/25 at 2:20 pm to
If we cut all discretionary spending back to 2019 levels we could get close. Total spend then was about $4.5T and if you add increases in SS, MC, MCaid and debt service you get to about $5.7T. Estimated 2025 Revenue is $5.2T.

Then you cut rates to offset austerity and refinance debt at lower rates. Also, clean up entitlements to make sure anyone receiving them is legit.

Of course none of this will ever happen.
Posted by SDVTiger
Cabo San Lucas
Member since Nov 2011
98274 posts
Posted on 5/22/25 at 7:32 pm to
quote:

At this point the only thing to turn this ship is to let the tax cuts expire


Wow
Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
4156 posts
Posted on 5/22/25 at 7:42 pm to
Have you burned your candles and prayed to Jerome?
Posted by Dandaman
Louisiana
Member since May 2017
814 posts
Posted on 5/22/25 at 8:18 pm to
We need a “new deal” type of spending. Let’s rehab the entire country to get it ready for year 2150
Posted by Warfox
B.R. Native (now in MA)
Member since Apr 2017
3835 posts
Posted on 5/22/25 at 8:30 pm to
To fix this before the iceberg we will require BOTH spending cuts AND increased tax revenue.

It’s the only way, and I just don’t see it happening.

Posted by SDVTiger
Cabo San Lucas
Member since Nov 2011
98274 posts
Posted on 5/22/25 at 9:48 pm to
You need new material

Jerome can be too late all he wants. You can cheer on stupid all you want

Dont be crying about recessions
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