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re: You decide if the HIT was dirty. Slow motion at the end

Posted on 11/18/09 at 12:52 pm to
Posted by TechDawg2007
Bawville
Member since Nov 2007
32459 posts
Posted on 11/18/09 at 12:52 pm to
quote:

WHO CARES YOU TEAM SUCKS
They may, but we gave the #6 and # 8 team in the country ALL they wanted
Posted by DEG
Atlanta
Member since Jul 2009
10750 posts
Posted on 11/18/09 at 12:52 pm to
quote:

When I saw it live, I thought it was helmet to helmet. The replay shows that Boyd led with his forearms and the helmet to helmet was incidental. Clean hit. (and a very good one).


You are 100% wrong. You cannot launch yourself, helmet to helmet, into a defenseless receiver. Bottom line. Opinions don't count here, rules do.

Rules:

quote:

Intentional helmet-to-helmet contact is never legal, nor is any other blow directed toward an opponent’s head


LINK
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
133514 posts
Posted on 11/18/09 at 12:53 pm to
quote:

it was not a dirty hit
It was an illegal hit according to NCAA rules.
Posted by hoghunter
OverThere, US
Member since Jan 2007
1058 posts
Posted on 11/18/09 at 12:55 pm to
quote:

Posts like Hoghunter's rarely come form anyone who has played the game.
The game is violent enough within the rules, if you play it right without cheap shots that can ruin a career or worse.


I did play the game and yes I have been on the receiving end of h2h hits. There are times that they appear to be intentional, I just dont think this was the case. One could even argue that his facemask made contact because it clearly wasnt the crown of his helmet as seen here:

LINK

Above is a dirty hit. The guy launched himself like a missile and used the CROWN of his helmet as a weapon. No doubt illegal.

Look, the last thing I want to see is anyone get hurt, period. But at the same time, this is a violent game and violent collisions are going to happen. Im glad that TT is alright, I just dont think this hit is half as bad as the radio led me to believe
Posted by T1
Dallas, TX
Member since Dec 2006
3060 posts
Posted on 11/18/09 at 12:55 pm to
Watch it again. BOTH players were leaping when the ball was in the air. He could have actually been "launching" himself to knock the pass down. Good hit.

ETA: Pause the tape at :06
This post was edited on 11/18/09 at 12:56 pm
Posted by Choctaw
Pumpin' Sunshine
Member since Jul 2007
77774 posts
Posted on 11/18/09 at 12:57 pm to
quote:

In fact tackling 101 teaches to keep your head up and follow through with your facemask.


You can't leave your feet and launch yourself at a players head. Thats why it's dirty and that's why a penalty should have been called.

If he would have just ran through him then its clean.
Posted by Archie Bengal Bunker
Member since Jun 2008
15597 posts
Posted on 11/18/09 at 12:57 pm to
I don't think it was so much helmet to helmet, as it was going for the head of a defenseless receiver. Whether or not he led with the helmet (which is debatable)... imo, there is no debating that he went for the receivers head.
Posted by Tiger-Striped-Bass
The Bay Area
Member since Dec 2004
1273 posts
Posted on 11/18/09 at 12:59 pm to
quote:

Watch it again. BOTH players were leaping when the ball was in the air. He could have actually been "launching" himself to knock the pass down. Good hit.


You can convince yourself of anything cant you.

That will get you ejected in the NFL with a fine, but since it is from a sub-level college team trying to take their shots however they can, I guess it is acceptable.
This post was edited on 11/18/09 at 1:01 pm
Posted by T1
Dallas, TX
Member since Dec 2006
3060 posts
Posted on 11/18/09 at 1:00 pm to
quote:

sub-level college team


I guess everybody is sub SEC. You guys rock!
Posted by Tiger-Striped-Bass
The Bay Area
Member since Dec 2004
1273 posts
Posted on 11/18/09 at 1:03 pm to
quote:

I guess everybody is sub SEC. You guys rock!


All I meant was that there's no way the bigger school gets away with that on the smaller school. It would have been seen as a classless, disrespectful, bully-like gesture that would not have been condoned by even LSU fans.
This post was edited on 11/18/09 at 1:05 pm
Posted by lsutiger4life
gonzales
Member since Sep 2005
5365 posts
Posted on 11/18/09 at 1:04 pm to
was it DIRTY? not really

should it have been a penalty??? HELL YEAH!

he coulda went lower, helmet to chest, but he took no chances and climbed the ladder and despite his arms touching TT first, the blow with the helmet was SEVERE!

Posted by HONDEAUX
Out Yonder
Member since Sep 2009
592 posts
Posted on 11/18/09 at 1:07 pm to
quote:

They may, but we gave the #6 and # 8 team in the country ALL they wanted


That's kind of like the rape victim being asked, after the event if there was anything positive about it, and she said, "yeah, but I gave 'em all they wanted."

YOU STILL LOST! AGAINST AN LSU TEAM THAT WAS FAST ASLEEP FOR ALMOST THE ENTIRE GAME!

I hate moral-victory douchebag mentality.
Posted by philter
Member since Dec 2004
8967 posts
Posted on 11/18/09 at 1:08 pm to
quote:

Rules Changes 1. Player Safety. Helmet Crown and Defenseless Players (Rule 9-1-3). The committee has refined the rules regarding the use of the helmet as a weapon and the targeting of defenseless players. (The Points of Emphasis section of the NCAA Football Rules and Interpretations lists a number of examples of defenseless players.) Emphasis on these actions highlights concern about potentially debilitating injuries. It is now a foul when a player targets an opponent and initiates contact with the crown (top) of the helmet. This rule is intended primarily for the safety of the player who initiates the contact. It is also a foul if a player targets a defenseless opponent and initiates contact above the shoulders. Each of these is a personal foul and thus carries a 15-yard penalty.


2009 rule book (points of emphasis):
quote:

Intentional helmet-to-helmet contact is never legal, nor is any other blow directed toward an opponent’s head. Flagrant offenders shall be disqualified.


Specific examples of "Defenseless"
quote:

PROTECTION OF DEFENSELESS PLAYERS—In 2008, the committee
introduced a separate rule prohibiting initiating contact with and targeting a
defenseless opponent (Rule 9-1-3).

The following are situations in which defenseless players are susceptible to
serious injury:

• The quarterback moving down the line of scrimmage who has handed or
pitched the ball to a teammate, and then makes no attempt to participate
further in the play;
• The kicker who is in the act of kicking the ball, or who has not had a
reasonable length of time to regain his balance after the kick;
• The passer who is in the act of throwing the ball, or who has not had a
reasonable length of time to participate in the play again after releasing the
ball;
• The pass receiver whose concentration is on the ball;
• The pass receiver who has clearly relaxed when the pass is no longer
catchable;
• The kick receiver whose attention is on the downward flight of the ball;
• The kick receiver who has just touched the ball;
• The player who has relaxed once the ball has become dead; and
• The player who is obviously out of the play.


LINK


/argument
/thread
Posted by billfish21
Louisiana
Member since Jan 2009
1659 posts
Posted on 11/18/09 at 1:08 pm to
'dirty?' not necessarily... a penalty? yes

boyd is a hell of a player and the bulldog defensive backs put a beatdown on the warriors of hawaii... they're damn good

how can one argue against boyd launching himself and leading with helmet and forearms at the head of a receiver with a mindset for the ball?

tolliver played the pass as exactly he should - boyd could have played the pass a dozen ways which could have separated the receiver from the ball. it is tough to say the defensive back isn't head-hunting... personal foul no question.

Posted by TigersD69
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2009
1071 posts
Posted on 11/18/09 at 1:23 pm to
Alabama fans would have concluded that Tolliver's delay in getting up was indictive of the superior conditioning of their football team...
Posted by Newbomb Turk
perfectanschlagen
Member since May 2008
9961 posts
Posted on 11/18/09 at 1:29 pm to
In the NFL, that is a mid-range 5 digit fine ($25-50K depending on the player and his salary/past).

And, it was textbook illegal. If they had a video rulebook to show exactly what is meant by a rule, this hit would be the video associated with the "illegally launching yourself in a helmet-to-helmet collision against a defenseless receiver" rule. This is exactly why the rule was put in the books in the first place.

Having said that, I don't know if I'd call it "dirty". It's one of those spur of the moment jobs. Now, had the ball been past Tolliver for a second or two and then the player had done the same thing, I would say it was dirty. And, it was clearly a missed call on the part of the officials and they should be graded accordingly.
Posted by saderade
America's City
Member since Jul 2005
26227 posts
Posted on 11/18/09 at 1:30 pm to
quote:

philter
quote:

Rules Changes 1. Player Safety. Helmet Crown and Defenseless Players (Rule 9-1-3). The committee has refined the rules regarding the use of the helmet as a weapon and the targeting of defenseless players. (The Points of Emphasis section of the NCAA Football Rules and Interpretations lists a number of examples of defenseless players.) Emphasis on these actions highlights concern about potentially debilitating injuries. It is now a foul when a player targets an opponent and initiates contact with the crown (top) of the helmet. This rule is intended primarily for the safety of the player who initiates the contact. It is also a foul if a player targets a defenseless opponent and initiates contact above the shoulders. Each of these is a personal foul and thus carries a 15-yard penalty.


2009 rule book (points of emphasis):
quote:
Intentional helmet-to-helmet contact is never legal, nor is any other blow directed toward an opponent’s head. Flagrant offenders shall be disqualified.


Specific examples of "Defenseless"
quote:
PROTECTION OF DEFENSELESS PLAYERS—In 2008, the committee
introduced a separate rule prohibiting initiating contact with and targeting a
defenseless opponent (Rule 9-1-3).

The following are situations in which defenseless players are susceptible to
serious injury:

• The quarterback moving down the line of scrimmage who has handed or
pitched the ball to a teammate, and then makes no attempt to participate
further in the play;
• The kicker who is in the act of kicking the ball, or who has not had a
reasonable length of time to regain his balance after the kick;
• The passer who is in the act of throwing the ball, or who has not had a
reasonable length of time to participate in the play again after releasing the
ball;
• The pass receiver whose concentration is on the ball;
• The pass receiver who has clearly relaxed when the pass is no longer
catchable;
• The kick receiver whose attention is on the downward flight of the ball;
• The kick receiver who has just touched the ball;
• The player who has relaxed once the ball has become dead; and
• The player who is obviously out of the play.
/argument
/thread

Posted by molsusports
Member since Jul 2004
37048 posts
Posted on 11/18/09 at 1:31 pm to
quote:

It is also a foul if a player targets a defenseless opponent and initiates contact above the shoulders. Each of these is a personal foul and thus carries a 15-yard penalty.




exactly right

some people misunderstand or never heard the rules based on their comments

Posted by KenDawg
Member since Feb 2007
10 posts
Posted on 11/18/09 at 1:32 pm to
A "defenseless" player is one without the ball. You cannot hit a defenseless player in the head. Toliver had the ball.

Another RULE is that you can't lead with the CROWN of the helmet. Boyd was face-up and hit Toliver with his facemask.

There was no RULE violated and the ref agreed, he is clearly shown standing right there.

The RULE is not a penalty for any helmet-to-helmet contact. It's leading with the crown.



Boyd was simply trying to break up the pass. If you watch, you can see that he hit right where the ball was. Toliver tucked it before Boyd got there, but Boyd's head went right where the ball was.

I wouldn't expect knuckle-dragging drunk-booing-stadium vacating tiger fans to know much about rules though.
Posted by dgnx6
Member since Feb 2006
85616 posts
Posted on 11/18/09 at 1:33 pm to
meh, doesnt look like he was trying to go h2h. actually looks like helmets touch but he was pushing him at same time.

After watching it few more times i do think that would get called most of the time. i wouldnt say it was a dirty cheap shot or anything like that.
This post was edited on 11/18/09 at 1:35 pm
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