- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: An attempted unbiased analysis of Kirby Smart & Ed Orgeron in their first 2 years
Posted on 5/3/18 at 9:05 am to Mo Jeaux
Posted on 5/3/18 at 9:05 am to Mo Jeaux
It is amazing to me the lengths to which some people have to exaggerate what kind of "mess" the program was when Les got fired to rationalize Ed Orgeron.
The program wasn't a mess then, it isn't a mess now. I certainly think we are headed toward mess, but I don't have any proof of that yet.
The comparison between LSU and Georgia is particularly relevant because both schools did the same thing: fire good coaches at good programs because they wanted to be great programs and compete with Alabama for the SEC top spot.
The difference SO FAR has been marked. Kirby Smart was one play away from a Natty, Ed Orgeron is firing OC's after one year.
BUT, Kirby didn't look all that great after one year, so who knows?
But this whole "Ed Orgeron inherited the Vanderbilt Commodores" is total garbage.
The program wasn't a mess then, it isn't a mess now. I certainly think we are headed toward mess, but I don't have any proof of that yet.
The comparison between LSU and Georgia is particularly relevant because both schools did the same thing: fire good coaches at good programs because they wanted to be great programs and compete with Alabama for the SEC top spot.
The difference SO FAR has been marked. Kirby Smart was one play away from a Natty, Ed Orgeron is firing OC's after one year.
BUT, Kirby didn't look all that great after one year, so who knows?
But this whole "Ed Orgeron inherited the Vanderbilt Commodores" is total garbage.
2
Posted on 5/3/18 at 9:07 am to HonoraryCoonass
quote:
It was horrible, but no worse than Arnsparger losing to Miami of Ohio, or Saban losing to UAB.
LSU's 1986 team did lose to Miami (OH) and then preceded to win the SEC and play Nebraska in the Sugar (and lose again to those assholes.) Ugly loss, but the team actually did rebound and win something of note, right? Also...I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that Bill Arnsparger had earned via his entire career the leeway of a loss like that, while Orgeron...um...has not.
The 2000 UAB loss gets brought up, and makes no sense at all. The 2000 program is comparable to the 2017 program in name only. It's a dishonest comparison. I mean, for frick's sake...Saban turned around a program that had gone 7-15 the two previous seasons to go 8-4 with a bowl win over GA Tech...and people want to harp on the loss to UAB (his 4th game as LSU's head coach) as some program defining type bad loss.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 9:28 am to HonoraryCoonass
quote:
no worse than Arnsparger losing to Miami of Ohio, or Saban losing to UAB.
Losing to a Sunbelt team is far worse than UAB or MO. Also, don't give me Saban lost to UAB & ULM in his first years at LSU & Bama. Saban inherited a mess at both schools.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 9:37 am to TDcline
quote:The outcome of the Tigers’ season opener this season might add a little salt to this discussion.
Georgia fans were tired of Richt not being able to get over the hump, and knew they were a juggernaut in the East just waiting to boom.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 9:40 am to HonoraryCoonass
quote:
It was horrible, but no worse than Arnsparger losing to Miami of Ohio, or Saban losing to UAB.
I mean If you think he football program is where it was in the 80s and 2000.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 9:56 am to TDcline
quote:
The Florida game was just absolutely sloppy and looked very bad.
You lose a lot of credibility in my book when stating stuff like this. We dominated that game with the exception of three plays:
Jackson's frick up on the TD
Jackson's fumble
Guice running the wrong way
The reality is the game plan was excellent and, with the exception of a handful of plays, so was the execution. I'm no fan of the Orgeron hire, but stating that we looked very bad against Florida is disingenuous imo. As for the Alabama game, you are spot on.
This post was edited on 5/3/18 at 12:19 pm
Posted on 5/3/18 at 10:11 am to TheSearch
quote:
The difference SO FAR has been marked. Kirby Smart was one play away from a Natty, Ed Orgeron is firing OC's after one year.
O has many faults and we’ve spent pages and days discussing them. Parting ways with Canada isn’t necessarily one of them. All of the gimmicky, Mickey Mouse shifts, jet sweep U nonsens wasn’t going to propel LSU into the upper offensive team echelon in the SEC. He failed to deliver a big time O coordinator to replace him. There is the failure. Getting rid of Canada wasn’t.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 10:21 am to Game2620
quote:
O has many faults and we’ve spent pages and days discussing them. Parting ways with Canada isn’t necessarily one of them. All of the gimmicky, Mickey Mouse shifts, jet sweep U nonsens wasn’t going to propel LSU into the upper offensive team echelon in the SEC. He failed to deliver a big time O coordinator to replace him. There is the failure. Getting rid of Canada wasn’t.
No that entirely is on him. Coach O hired him, his offense was never anything he never ran in his career. The issue was O didn't see eye to eye with Canada, started to interfere and put his hands into the offense, and it all looked like a shite sandwich.
It shows you how well O looks into coordinators and vets if their style matches what he wants to put out there.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 10:30 am to Game2620
quote:
Parting ways with Canada isn’t necessarily one of them.
I'm listening.
quote:
All of the gimmicky, Mickey Mouse shifts, jet sweep U nonsens wasn’t going to propel LSU into the upper offensive team echelon in the SEC.
Wait...then why did Orgeron hand pick him and say this when he hand picked him to be the OC:
quote:
“In the past, I’ve maybe hurried to make a (hiring) decision,” Orgeron said. “I wanted to make the right decision. We’re putting the foundation of our program together. We want to take our time and we want it to be solid.”
“It didn’t take long to know he was right for the job,” Orgeron said. “He wanted to be at LSU. His phone was ringing from other major universities yesterday. He wanted to be here. It was a good feeling.
“Team, his ability to adjust (blew me away). I watched his game against Clemson. He explained every play and formation, why he did it, what the defense was doing.”
LINK
So...how is it our head coach says that about a guy with a gimmicky, Mickey Mouse scheme? Did he not know it?
quote:
He failed to deliver a big time O coordinator to replace him.
Well, obviously.
quote:
There is the failure.
There was ANOTHER failure.
quote:
Getting rid of Canada wasn’t.
You need to choose which part was the failure on Ed's part in regards to Canada, though. Either, it was a failure to have hired him...and that means he's a shitty judge of coaches based on what he said about Canada above OR it was a failure to have cut him lose after 11 months on the job and thereby having to go and find a big time replacement OC...which you said he failed to do.
The only way getting rid of Canada can be seen in a positive light is if you think Orgeron had no part of choosing him or you think Canada baited and switched poor ed once he arrived in Baton Rouge.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 10:42 am to GeauxTigerTM
Canada was a knee jerk reactionary pick since the 1st choice Kiffin declined. Had to get a “big name.”
The meltdown would’ve been even more epic if O had named E OC the first year.
What did you expect O to say? Our first pick said no and this was best we can do. Your quote is typical coach speak and sunshine pumping.
Canada’s resume of job hopping could show that he’s difficult to work with. His attitude towards simplifying the offense (especially when LSU was one of the most penalized teams in the nation) just further show that.
I get it. Some people are so upset with the O hire that they’ll criticize everything. He’s made mistakes but to argue he’s done everything wrong is absurd and irrational.
I hope O succeeds because I want LSU to succeed. I think a change at the AD level is long overdue.
The meltdown would’ve been even more epic if O had named E OC the first year.
What did you expect O to say? Our first pick said no and this was best we can do. Your quote is typical coach speak and sunshine pumping.
Canada’s resume of job hopping could show that he’s difficult to work with. His attitude towards simplifying the offense (especially when LSU was one of the most penalized teams in the nation) just further show that.
I get it. Some people are so upset with the O hire that they’ll criticize everything. He’s made mistakes but to argue he’s done everything wrong is absurd and irrational.
I hope O succeeds because I want LSU to succeed. I think a change at the AD level is long overdue.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 10:47 am to TDcline
What about every other university with a coach that has been in place for two years?
And, I am confused, was O the coach when he took over in the middle of 2016 or not (nobody wants to give him credit for wins at USC or during 2016, so they can belittle his winning percentage)? Nobody wants to give him credit, but now we compare him to the one outlier in all of college football and make him a two year head coach at LSU. Got it.
And, I am confused, was O the coach when he took over in the middle of 2016 or not (nobody wants to give him credit for wins at USC or during 2016, so they can belittle his winning percentage)? Nobody wants to give him credit, but now we compare him to the one outlier in all of college football and make him a two year head coach at LSU. Got it.
This post was edited on 5/3/18 at 10:48 am
Posted on 5/3/18 at 11:40 am to HonoraryCoonass
“No worse”
Context is important. In 2000 LSU was coming off the worse decade of losing in our history. 7 of 10 yrs saw us under .500.
In 2017 LSU was coming off 16 winning yrs, 3 NCG appearances, and 2 National titles. If you can’t see the vast difference between the Saban L and the O L, that’s on you.
Context is important. In 2000 LSU was coming off the worse decade of losing in our history. 7 of 10 yrs saw us under .500.
In 2017 LSU was coming off 16 winning yrs, 3 NCG appearances, and 2 National titles. If you can’t see the vast difference between the Saban L and the O L, that’s on you.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 11:42 am to Game2620
quote:
Canada was a knee jerk reactionary pick since the 1st choice Kiffin declined.
Kiffin was NEVER going to come as the OC. He and O are good friends, he most certainly told him that he was looking to get another HC gig. O just used his name as bait to act like he had a plan in place.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 11:43 am to go ta hell ole miss
quote:
Nobody wants to give him credit,
I certainly give him full credit for the embarrassing losses to UF and Bama in 2016.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 11:46 am to Game2620
quote:
Canada was a knee jerk reactionary pick since the 1st choice Kiffin declined.
This is what the man, himself, said:
“In the past, I’ve maybe hurried to make a (hiring) decision,” Orgeron said. “I wanted to make the right decision. We’re putting the foundation of our program together. We want to take our time and we want it to be solid.”
So...even though Ed Orgeron says he took his time, you (with hindsight) declare it was a hasty decision. This right here is how one plays tennis without the net, folks. In order to allow Orgeron out of this decision, you have to call him a liar and THEN justify his lie with this number...
quote:
What did you expect O to say? Our first pick said no and this was best we can do. Your quote is typical coach speak and sunshine pumping.
Beautiful. Honestly, I'll let that stand on it's own.
quote:
Canada’s resume of job hopping could show that he’s difficult to work with.
And yet, Orgeron hired him...which means he did not vet him properly if Canada is such a cancer. Again, the head coach hired him only to then claim the guy he hired ran an offense he didn't like and was a dickhead to work with. Unless you're willing to suggest Orgeron did not hire him, the blame falls on the head coach.
quote:
I get it. Some people are so upset with the O hire that they’ll criticize everything.
I criticize that for which he deserves criticism. I have no need to make anything up or even exaggerate in this case.
quote:
He’s made mistakes but to argue he’s done everything wrong is absurd and irrational.
Agreed...and if you can name anyone on this board that has stated that "he’s done everything wrong" you'd have a valid point. I don't believe anyone, and I know I have not, has done that. Now...it may very well be because even a broken clock is right twice a day which is how you can account for the successes he's had so far...but he has not been without a few.
quote:
I hope O succeeds because I want LSU to succeed.
So does EVERY SINGLE PERSON who has been outraged by his hire.
quote:
I think a change at the AD level is long overdue.
It starts there, yes...but it ought not end there.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 12:17 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
So do we lower our expectations? Is that a good thing?
No where in my post did I imply that we should lower expectations. I stated that I doubt that O can duplicate the success Kirby had in year 2 in his 2nd year as LSU HC. I don't see him reaching the NCG this year do you?
I'm simply stating where we are at in relation to Kirby and GA as referenced in the OP. I'm not lobbying for or against O. That being said, I'm very skeptical O will get us where we should be. I think he could achieve that perfect storm and have a great season (maybe 2019), but I just don't see sustainability.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 1:28 pm to TheSearch
“But I don’t have any proof”
We have a history setting loss to west rival who we have owned for 20 years. We have a history setting loss to a SBC team which is also our 1st L to a non-power 5 conference teams in 15 yrs. We have our lowest national recruiting ranking in in 15 yrs. Our new HC hires a OC he can’t get alone with for even 5 games at a price of 1.5 mil. That OC was fired after one season costing LSU 2.5 million
We hired for our head coach a guy who no school in college football would’ve hired if we hadn’t. He hires a OC who hadn’t been hired to call plays as an OC in 20 years.
Each to our own, but that some fairly solid proof in my book.
We have a history setting loss to west rival who we have owned for 20 years. We have a history setting loss to a SBC team which is also our 1st L to a non-power 5 conference teams in 15 yrs. We have our lowest national recruiting ranking in in 15 yrs. Our new HC hires a OC he can’t get alone with for even 5 games at a price of 1.5 mil. That OC was fired after one season costing LSU 2.5 million
We hired for our head coach a guy who no school in college football would’ve hired if we hadn’t. He hires a OC who hadn’t been hired to call plays as an OC in 20 years.
Each to our own, but that some fairly solid proof in my book.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 1:37 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
GeauxTigerTM
Savage.
There's one trap with the shifting nature of O's responsibility and a valid assessmen t of his actions...
quote:
So...even though Ed Orgeron says he took his time, you (with hindsight) declare it was a hasty decision. This right here is how one plays tennis without the net, folks. In order to allow Orgeron out of this decision, you have to call him a liar and THEN justify his lie with this number...
quote:
And yet, Orgeron hired him...which means he did not vet him properly if Canada is such a cancer. Again, the head coach hired him only to then claim the guy he hired ran an offense he didn't like and was a dickhead to work with. Unless you're willing to suggest Orgeron did not hire him, the blame falls on the head coach.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 1:57 pm to TDcline
Your handle and previous posts indicate bias. Good Luck
Posted on 5/3/18 at 4:49 pm to TDcline
quote:
In my opinion, those 2 games are what exposed O. The Alabama game: the team played hard and left it all on the field but the game play was very Miles-esqu. The Florida game was just absolutely sloppy and looked very bad.
You really shouldn't post about football.
Page 11 of 12
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News