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re: Remove
Posted on 1/9/21 at 9:37 am to tlricks04
Posted on 1/9/21 at 9:37 am to tlricks04
New season. Same old poor skill selection / routine construction issues.
The reason why Florida and Oklahoma excel is because Jenny Rowland and KJ understand the code of points inside out, and know how to minimise deductions.
I expect more from our coaches to put the gymnasts in a good position with good routines to compete with the other top-tier teams.
-
UB
- Why is Brock mounting the bar facing the wrong way, then doing a hideous orphan half turn before her Tkatchev? Just mount facing the low bar and avoid the massive deductions for not hitting handstand. Or do a blind change to Jaeger (which she competed back in 2018) instead of giant 1/2 to Tkatchev.
Otherwise, I actually like the look of Brock on bars and prefer her to Arenas, who is quite sloppy and has an iffy DLO.
- Alyona's DLO has got to go. The technique is just not there and the deductions for body shape and landing are not worth it. Do a clean stalder to double tuck that she can stick every time (see Arkansas' first 3 UB routines).
- Speaking of dismounts, Durante's is much improved. Good on her.
- Bryant needs to add the half out to her double front. Haven't we learnt a lesson from Ruby giving away potential 9.9s because of steps on her double front?
BB
- Arenas really shouldn't be doing BOTH the front toss and side aerial just to get a 10 SV. The more acro skills, the more deductions. I'd add a BHS to her current BHS-LOSO to earn an extra 0.1 bonus, or even try a double wolf turn.
- Very glad that Dean is now doing a beat jump out of her front aerial, instead of a split. We need more smart decisions like this.
- Having Dunne and Bryant in the lineup should greatly boost our competitiveness. I'd move the perpetually underscored Desiderio to the back half of the lineup, or even have her as the anchor to squeeze a few more tenths.
FX
- The key on floor is not difficulty, but cleanliness. Look at how well Arkansas scored even though their gymnasts mounted with "simple" double tucks. Clean up the landings, go for easier tumbling and work on those leaps!
- Surely they can figure out a new second pass for Sarah Edwards. That front full - front full has given her so many problems, plus a terrible injury last season. How about a simple front layout to front full (like McKenna Kelley)?
- Bryant knocked it out of the park today but that front double full as the last pass is a ticking time bomb (she fell on it at Gym 101). Maybe switch it around with the second pass?
- Re cleanliness, we need Dunne and Campbell in the lineup.
Jay, are you reading this?
The reason why Florida and Oklahoma excel is because Jenny Rowland and KJ understand the code of points inside out, and know how to minimise deductions.
I expect more from our coaches to put the gymnasts in a good position with good routines to compete with the other top-tier teams.
-
UB
- Why is Brock mounting the bar facing the wrong way, then doing a hideous orphan half turn before her Tkatchev? Just mount facing the low bar and avoid the massive deductions for not hitting handstand. Or do a blind change to Jaeger (which she competed back in 2018) instead of giant 1/2 to Tkatchev.
Otherwise, I actually like the look of Brock on bars and prefer her to Arenas, who is quite sloppy and has an iffy DLO.
- Alyona's DLO has got to go. The technique is just not there and the deductions for body shape and landing are not worth it. Do a clean stalder to double tuck that she can stick every time (see Arkansas' first 3 UB routines).
- Speaking of dismounts, Durante's is much improved. Good on her.
- Bryant needs to add the half out to her double front. Haven't we learnt a lesson from Ruby giving away potential 9.9s because of steps on her double front?
BB
- Arenas really shouldn't be doing BOTH the front toss and side aerial just to get a 10 SV. The more acro skills, the more deductions. I'd add a BHS to her current BHS-LOSO to earn an extra 0.1 bonus, or even try a double wolf turn.
- Very glad that Dean is now doing a beat jump out of her front aerial, instead of a split. We need more smart decisions like this.
- Having Dunne and Bryant in the lineup should greatly boost our competitiveness. I'd move the perpetually underscored Desiderio to the back half of the lineup, or even have her as the anchor to squeeze a few more tenths.
FX
- The key on floor is not difficulty, but cleanliness. Look at how well Arkansas scored even though their gymnasts mounted with "simple" double tucks. Clean up the landings, go for easier tumbling and work on those leaps!
- Surely they can figure out a new second pass for Sarah Edwards. That front full - front full has given her so many problems, plus a terrible injury last season. How about a simple front layout to front full (like McKenna Kelley)?
- Bryant knocked it out of the park today but that front double full as the last pass is a ticking time bomb (she fell on it at Gym 101). Maybe switch it around with the second pass?
- Re cleanliness, we need Dunne and Campbell in the lineup.
Jay, are you reading this?
2
Posted on 1/9/21 at 10:08 am to Babushka
I wouldn’t say Jenny Rowland excels. She has yet to win anything besides SEC and Regional Championships. Those three titles Florida won were all under Rhonda Faehn. Now Kindler, she gets it! She’s literally a “savant” of gymnastics. I remember an interview she did many years ago. She was asked how she handled gymnasts (mainly elites) and the plethora of hard skills they could perform. She simply stated it wasn’t about difficulty. It’s about execution and cleanliness, and sometimes less is more. I think that’s something DD never understood. I hope Jay gets it at some point soon.
Posted on 1/9/21 at 10:48 am to tlricks04
I trust Jay and his judgement to make the changes as needed. No shade to DD but Jay has actually won his fair share of national championships as a head coach at UGA. He knows what it takes to win the title
Posted on 1/9/21 at 10:54 am to lsugymfann
quote:
No shade to DD but Jay has actually won his fair share of national championships as a head coach at UGA.
Not exactly
Posted on 1/9/21 at 11:01 am to tlricks04
Titles may elude Jenny but she is a certified brevet-level judge and judged the 2008 and 2012 Olympic Trials.
She knows what she's doing.
She knows what she's doing.
Posted on 1/9/21 at 12:19 pm to lsugymfann
quote:
I trust Jay and his judgement to make the changes as needed. No shade to DD but Jay has actually won his fair share of national championships as a head coach at UGA. He knows what it takes to win the title
I like Jay but just want to say being a HC is dramatically different than being an assistant coach. No doubt Jay was a critical piece bringing in top tier talent but Suzanne (as much as I dislike her) was the reason for those national title runs. Her teams took after her and had that killer instincts, they knew how to compete, hit routines when they count, and win. We will see how much Jay has changed since Georgia pretty soon.
My biggest gripe for meet 1 was returning routines being botched and Jay putting out awful lineups. I understand wanting to ease some of the freshmen in but some of the lineup choices were horrible. Brock over Arenas on bars? Dean as the lead off on floor? lol
As far as routine construction, Alyona's double layout has to go immediately. Bryant has to do the dismount w/ the half twist. Why are we upgrading Kiya's beam which it has a very difficult leap series already?
LSU cannot be as patient as they want to be during a normal season. We only have 8 meets plus SEC's. Things will have to move quicker so not sure the point on holding back on lineups. If someone is hurting, obviously do something but no reason not to put your best foot forward right now.
This post was edited on 1/9/21 at 12:23 pm
Posted on 1/9/21 at 1:27 pm to Tigerbait357
I think they should pull alonya from bars because if they haven’t changed her dismount yet I don’t think they will this year. I think you can put Bridget back in there. She’s nothing if not consistent. I love Sami but she is so inconsistent on beam and once she checks she gets all in her head. I would pull her for a freshman. No Bridget on floor, that is not her event. Where was Ballard, or Olivia G? We have got to make smarter choices. Also I agree about not holding back this season. This is the one season where you need to (excuse my language) shite and git!
Posted on 1/9/21 at 1:38 pm to khill715
This may not be a popular opinion but its the elephant in the room, outside of Alyona's dismount, I feel her form on bars has regressed since being at LSU. This doesn't even look comparable to the same gymnast she was as an elite. Her form was far better as an elite doing more difficult routine than it has in college w/ an easier and shorter routine. Hand stands, body line all are far worse so far. I think she grew some as well which doesn't help. Year one I attribute horrible routine construction for some of the struggles but she needs help right now. Jay has to do something. I'm not worried about Alyona on vault, I think she will help us a lot there even with the fall last night.
Alyona Bars- World Team Selection Camp
I don't get why jay didn't even give Haleigh an opportunity to compete at 101. I like Elena as well but Haleigh has always been a better beam worker than her so it just all doesn't make sense to me. Unless she is falling a lot in practice, I am not seeing what the coaches are seeing.
Olivia Dunne needs to heal up because we need her on beam and floor
At this point we may even need to throw Sierra Ballard out on floor as well in the near future.
Alyona Bars- World Team Selection Camp
quote:
I love Sami but she is so inconsistent on beam and once she checks she gets all in her head. I would pull her for a freshman.
I don't get why jay didn't even give Haleigh an opportunity to compete at 101. I like Elena as well but Haleigh has always been a better beam worker than her so it just all doesn't make sense to me. Unless she is falling a lot in practice, I am not seeing what the coaches are seeing.
Olivia Dunne needs to heal up because we need her on beam and floor
At this point we may even need to throw Sierra Ballard out on floor as well in the near future.
This post was edited on 1/9/21 at 2:05 pm
Posted on 1/9/21 at 2:41 pm to Tigerbait357
I agree with everyone’s frustrations and to put it simply, we were out coached last night. Jordan was not scared to throw easier skills (double tuck opening passes, Yurchenko 1/2 on vault, a release immediately to a shoot over to avoid a possible deduction on a bail, the bonus into double tuck dismounts on bars.)
All that said, we still have an incredibly talented team. How this team responds next week at Ark will be critical. If they can build off of those last two routines on floor, this year will be unprecedented!!
All that said, we still have an incredibly talented team. How this team responds next week at Ark will be critical. If they can build off of those last two routines on floor, this year will be unprecedented!!
Posted on 1/9/21 at 3:03 pm to jpylan1
I totally agree. Kentucky and Mizzou also dismounted with double tucks off bars. And each time it was almost stuck. I don’t mind easier dismounts to be honest.
Posted on 1/9/21 at 3:47 pm to jpylan1
Side note, I'm not blaming Caitlin at all (injuries obviously out of her control) but it actually hurts a lot to have a kid on athletic scholarship that can't come close to breaking a lineup. Scholarships are already so limited in this sport, if you are on one, you really need them to be contributing something. Even if they are a one event specialist, that would be way better than what we have now.
If Smith is on scholarship next year, that means no spot for Selena Harris or Sophie Butler (if they want to come). Scary thoughts... That really makes a big difference in the out look and quality routines of a team.
If Smith is on scholarship next year, that means no spot for Selena Harris or Sophie Butler (if they want to come). Scary thoughts... That really makes a big difference in the out look and quality routines of a team.
This post was edited on 1/9/21 at 3:49 pm
Posted on 1/9/21 at 5:08 pm to Tigerbait357
Has there been published comments from Jay Clark post-meet? I’d like to see what he said.
Posted on 1/9/21 at 5:26 pm to CajunRocks
quote:
"It was really good to get a win to start this season," LSU Gymnastics head coach Jay Clark said. "It was a solid score to open the year. I think you will see a different team next week. Overall, I am pleased with tonight knowing our potential and we do not have to be perfect on the first night."
quote:
“That was not how you draw it up, but we got out with a win,” LSU coach Jay Clark said with a note of displeasure in his voice. “A lot of experienced kids made mistakes.
“Give credit to Arkansas. They showed up and hit their routines all the way through other than one (fall) on balance beam. You’re going to see a different team out of us in the weeks ahead.”
IMO let Alyona do a full next week on vault. Not giving up on that vault yet but we need her to get confidence and we need a hit vault rotation badly to help with team scores as other vaults are developing. Ryan will probably be getting a shot on vault soon.
Bars, there is absolutely zero reason Brock should be in on bars over Arenas anything short than a injury. With that said, Brock's routine construction is just as awful as Alyona's last year. Built in deduction galore. Why do half the double layouts look like double pikes?
Beam, sounds harsh but Durante's spot should be wide open at this point, she is super inconsistent on the series. Olivia Dunne will likely be back here soon as she gets over her ankle sprain. Bryant needs a shot here. Ballard could be decent but that routine is not usable with the leap series until it changes.
Floor, Arenas needs to be in this lineup. No Dean, she is a solid beam and bars worker, floor isn't it for her. Edwards needs to scrap the 2nd pass or not be in the lineup at all.
LSU needs to rip the bandaid off in certain spots and let the young kids do what we recruited them to do.
This post was edited on 1/9/21 at 5:34 pm
Posted on 1/9/21 at 6:20 pm to Tigerbait357
I agree completely Tigerbait. I’ve thought about it all day, and i can see Jay trusting Alyona to possibly fall on her first vault knowing she’s been through this before... i mean look at her first two bars routines last year. She can obviously take a few bumps and still come back strong. But, that’s one of the ways i think we were out coached last night. Let her throw a full on vault, the 1.5 can always come later.
To Alyona’s credit, i see her a lot like Ruby. Someone who crammed in tons of difficulty in elite and struggled with the transition to college. I remember being very frustrated with Ruby her first two years because i knew she was so talented. Maybe Alyona just needs a little more time to figure it all out.
To Alyona’s credit, i see her a lot like Ruby. Someone who crammed in tons of difficulty in elite and struggled with the transition to college. I remember being very frustrated with Ruby her first two years because i knew she was so talented. Maybe Alyona just needs a little more time to figure it all out.
Posted on 1/9/21 at 6:37 pm to jpylan1
I made that comparison earlier to Ruby as well and I think its super accurate. Alyona is talented but she needs more time to develop confidence in some of her gymnastics. Alyona looked very solid at 101 so I am not sure if she let the fall on vault get to her the rest of the meet. Everything just seemed off last night. It seemed to carry over after that vault.
I can tell you Alyona is one of the hardest working kids on the entire team and she doesn't let failure define her. There is a reason she is breaking into a lot of these lineups. Just gonna take some time to develop some confidence. I never expected Alyona to do AA but I thought she would contribute 2-3 strong events for us. I think she is gonna be very strong for us on vault. I think until changes are made to bars, she's just gonna struggle unfortunately. Floor was always a weak event for her so the struggles on floor don't exactly shock me but I hope she can get back to what she was doing at 101.
We really need a very strong meet next week.
I can tell you Alyona is one of the hardest working kids on the entire team and she doesn't let failure define her. There is a reason she is breaking into a lot of these lineups. Just gonna take some time to develop some confidence. I never expected Alyona to do AA but I thought she would contribute 2-3 strong events for us. I think she is gonna be very strong for us on vault. I think until changes are made to bars, she's just gonna struggle unfortunately. Floor was always a weak event for her so the struggles on floor don't exactly shock me but I hope she can get back to what she was doing at 101.
We really need a very strong meet next week.
This post was edited on 1/9/21 at 6:39 pm
Posted on 1/10/21 at 12:41 am to Tigerbait357
Just watching most of the routines from the meet now. Agree with all the sentiments here about routine construction and very odd lineup choices. I don't know why extra difficulty has been aded to routines that don't need it, especially on beam (eg Kiya - why oh why). The more difficulty there is, the more chances for deductions.
Think Alyona is a bit overwhelmed - she should have been eased in more slowly. Competing 3 events is a lot when she has been out of competition for awhile and her first year at LSU, was, frankly, not as good as it might have been. At this point I think they need to just get her doing a full on vault to give her confidence and rework the bars routine with an easier dismount. The longer that she goes on with major errors on that dismount, the more difficult it will be to get it right. If I had to guess I'd say the dismount is getting in her head - as Tigerbait has pointed out, she was much more confident on bars as an elite even with way, way, way higher difficulty. Poor routine construction last year also screwed her over with confidence. This is so frustrating. She could be so great but the coaching and routine construction is really doing her dirty.
I don't see Alyona and Ruby in really the same position despite both having slumps in sophomore year. With Ruby I understand the slump a lot better - she was riding the high off the Olympics for freshman year and she was in practically elite shape but healthier. But it's not uncommon for the exertion to catch up, even say, Madison Kocian was very worn down in sophomore year after a stellar freshman. But Alyona should not have those same issues and should be physically and mentally in good shape.
Think Alyona is a bit overwhelmed - she should have been eased in more slowly. Competing 3 events is a lot when she has been out of competition for awhile and her first year at LSU, was, frankly, not as good as it might have been. At this point I think they need to just get her doing a full on vault to give her confidence and rework the bars routine with an easier dismount. The longer that she goes on with major errors on that dismount, the more difficult it will be to get it right. If I had to guess I'd say the dismount is getting in her head - as Tigerbait has pointed out, she was much more confident on bars as an elite even with way, way, way higher difficulty. Poor routine construction last year also screwed her over with confidence. This is so frustrating. She could be so great but the coaching and routine construction is really doing her dirty.
I don't see Alyona and Ruby in really the same position despite both having slumps in sophomore year. With Ruby I understand the slump a lot better - she was riding the high off the Olympics for freshman year and she was in practically elite shape but healthier. But it's not uncommon for the exertion to catch up, even say, Madison Kocian was very worn down in sophomore year after a stellar freshman. But Alyona should not have those same issues and should be physically and mentally in good shape.
Posted on 1/10/21 at 12:01 pm to russiangym
I guess my point on the Ruby and Alyona comparison is their gymnastics background. Both were successful elites that thrived off competing with routines built around difficulty at the expense of overall execution. They both struggled with consistency at times. It didn't fully click for Ruby as a NCAA gymnast till year 3 and she. really progressed so much with her overall form and execution. Ruby though had a bigger obstacle as she came to LSU across the world which I'm sure was challenging for her.
Alyona just doesn't look comfortable on bars right now. Everything feels rushed and off for some reason. Like I said, she did far more difficult routines as an elite but her form was way better then than it is with these shorter NCAA routines. At the end of the day, what is the point of doing a double layout if the form is awful and the landings are just as bad? Thats a coaching failure on Jay's part. Hopefully they can fix it.
Alyona just doesn't look comfortable on bars right now. Everything feels rushed and off for some reason. Like I said, she did far more difficult routines as an elite but her form was way better then than it is with these shorter NCAA routines. At the end of the day, what is the point of doing a double layout if the form is awful and the landings are just as bad? Thats a coaching failure on Jay's part. Hopefully they can fix it.
Posted on 1/10/21 at 4:01 pm to Tigerbait357
Do you guys think Jay is aware about the alyona dismount situation? I mean, the gymternet and every sane human being has spoken. I wonder if someone ever told him that's a bad choice...
This post was edited on 1/10/21 at 4:21 pm
Posted on 1/10/21 at 5:20 pm to joaofff
@joaofff.....I was just going to ask that same question. To the people who know Jay’s personality, do you think he reads stuff on social media and discussion boards? And if so, is he one to give the suggestions/criticism any consideration, or does he think he’s always right?
This post was edited on 1/10/21 at 5:37 pm
Posted on 1/10/21 at 5:28 pm to joaofff
Jay has been doing this for years, not sure how he can't see it. Alyona's dismount problems have been well known since her elite days. She kept alternating it with the Fan which was also inconsistent.
With that said, I have to wonder why most of our double layouts not look like double layouts. Olivia Dunne is gonna have killer bar scores but she will get deducted for her form on that dismount every time unless its fixed. Pretty much all of the double layouts outside maybe Kiya and Arenas have a very piked shape.
After opening weekend, here are the overall team rankings. Keep in mind UCLA, Michigan and Denver haven't competed yet as well.
With that said, I have to wonder why most of our double layouts not look like double layouts. Olivia Dunne is gonna have killer bar scores but she will get deducted for her form on that dismount every time unless its fixed. Pretty much all of the double layouts outside maybe Kiya and Arenas have a very piked shape.
After opening weekend, here are the overall team rankings. Keep in mind UCLA, Michigan and Denver haven't competed yet as well.
This post was edited on 1/10/21 at 6:19 pm
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