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Message
re: Your low carb diet is probably killing you
Posted on 8/29/18 at 2:25 pm to StraightCashHomey21
Posted on 8/29/18 at 2:25 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:I don't agree with your "good carb/bad carb" delineation. To the extent that carb-heavy foods come with some valuable micro-nutrients attendant, then perhaps you could call those "good carbs"...although it's not the carb itself that is good for you.
over consumption of bad carbs can
This is not true for protein and fat - the actual proteins and fats are vital.
1
Posted on 8/29/18 at 4:24 pm to Big Scrub TX
This thread is a shite show.
From my understanding.
Fats and Proteins are essential. Carbs are not essential to the body. Glycogen can be created from Protein.
No food is 'good' for you. There are only more efficient or less efficient ways to get the micro and macro nutrient requirements your body needs to run at maximum efficiency.
If you need more energy in the form of glycogen, carbs are more efficient at getting you that energy than protein as protein can turn into glucose if left over protein is not used in the conversion to amino acids.
Excess glucose with the accumulation fat will lead to fat storage.
Dietary macros are semi inconsequential to fat loss. Pay attention to the word "fat" and not "weight." Unlike carbs, fats don't retain water like glycogen. This is the reason why most people lose the amount of weight they do on keto and then "gain it back" once they have carbs.
Keto is a good approach to weight loss.
IIFYM is a good approach to weight loss.
High Protein, low carb is a good approach to weight loss.
It's all preference.
Now as far as medical diets. Keto has been shown to slow cancer as cancer feeds on glycogen. Keto has also been proven to work with seizure patients. Alzheimer's disease is in studies right now to see if it helps because I believe the disease has a under utilization of glycogen as fuel for the brain.
As far as peak performance. Carbs help the most as they are readily available. Keto users don't have a peak as high as high carb athletes.
From my understanding.
Fats and Proteins are essential. Carbs are not essential to the body. Glycogen can be created from Protein.
No food is 'good' for you. There are only more efficient or less efficient ways to get the micro and macro nutrient requirements your body needs to run at maximum efficiency.
If you need more energy in the form of glycogen, carbs are more efficient at getting you that energy than protein as protein can turn into glucose if left over protein is not used in the conversion to amino acids.
Excess glucose with the accumulation fat will lead to fat storage.
Dietary macros are semi inconsequential to fat loss. Pay attention to the word "fat" and not "weight." Unlike carbs, fats don't retain water like glycogen. This is the reason why most people lose the amount of weight they do on keto and then "gain it back" once they have carbs.
Keto is a good approach to weight loss.
IIFYM is a good approach to weight loss.
High Protein, low carb is a good approach to weight loss.
It's all preference.
Now as far as medical diets. Keto has been shown to slow cancer as cancer feeds on glycogen. Keto has also been proven to work with seizure patients. Alzheimer's disease is in studies right now to see if it helps because I believe the disease has a under utilization of glycogen as fuel for the brain.
As far as peak performance. Carbs help the most as they are readily available. Keto users don't have a peak as high as high carb athletes.
Posted on 8/29/18 at 4:32 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
quote:Agree with some of your stuff, disagree with others.
From my understanding.
quote:
Fats and Proteins are essential. Carbs are not essential to the body. Glycogen can be created from Protein.
Obviously true.
quote:Mostly disagree. "Maximum efficiency" is certainly one goal you can have. However, it excludes tradeoffs with health that clearly impact longevity. I take it more or less as a given that almost all people want healthy longevity.
No food is 'good' for you. There are only more efficient or less efficient ways to get the micro and macro nutrient requirements your body needs to run at maximum efficiency.
quote:
Dietary macros are semi inconsequential to fat loss. Pay attention to the word "fat" and not "weight." Unlike carbs, fats don't retain water like glycogen. This is the reason why most people lose the amount of weight they do on keto and then "gain it back" once they have carbs.
Completely disagree. While it's clearly true that (even modest) carb consumption can lead to immediate fluid retention, most people lose that water weight on keto IN ADDITION TO actual fat. This isn't complicated - go keto, lose the first 5 almost overnight, lose the next 5 in the next 2 weeks.
quote:Yes, for weight loss. Which is rarely what I am discussing.
Keto is a good approach to weight loss.
IIFYM is a good approach to weight loss.
High Protein, low carb is a good approach to weight loss.
It's all preference.
quote:
Now as far as medical diets. Keto has been shown to slow cancer as cancer feeds on glycogen. Keto has also been proven to work with seizure patients. Alzheimer's disease is in studies right now to see if it helps because I believe the disease has a under utilization of glycogen as fuel for the brain.
The body of evidence is growing that sugar (i.e. carbs) is what contributes to cancer and Alzheimer's (we know it's what causes diabetes). Stated differently - carbs are bad for you.
quote:I don't believe this is true for "regular" people. I do think it's true that for ultra-high-performance athletes, sugar can be used as a PED to put a slightly higher peak on already-high performance. But the concept that protein and fat cannot provide you with enough energy is false.
As far as peak performance. Carbs help the most as they are readily available. Keto users don't have a peak as high as high carb athletes.
Posted on 8/29/18 at 4:36 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Big Scrub TX
I'll give you one thing, you don't quit and repeat yourself over and over again despite everyone not liking you.
Posted on 8/29/18 at 4:42 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:Everyone doesn't dislike me. You and your little buddy have a hard time when people don't immediately crumble under your spouting of conventional wisdom. It's fine.
I'll give you one thing, you don't quit and repeat yourself over and over again despite everyone not liking you.
And you're right - I repeat facts since they are all that matter. Nutrition science is littered with non-facts. Just because you spend half your time trying to misportray what I say doesn't mean others can't benefit.
Posted on 8/29/18 at 4:45 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
You and your little buddy have a hard time when people don't immediately crumble under your spouting of conventional wisdom. It's fine.
For about the hundredth time, I generally agree with you I just think you're akin to a cult member.
quote:
And you're my opinion - I repeat facts since they are all that matter.
FIFY
Posted on 8/29/18 at 5:01 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:Which cult is this? Seems like you keep saying "keto cult", even though I've never EVER advised ANYONE to do ANYTHING regarding ketones. All of my claims essentially boil down to one: carbs in general are not good for you. That's mildly controversial at best. It isn't even advice not to eat them. Seriously, what cult are you talking about?
For about the hundredth time, I generally agree with you I just think you're akin to a cult member.
quote:wut. English please
And you're my opinion - I repeat facts since they are all that matter.
Posted on 8/29/18 at 5:20 pm to lsu777
Fair enough homie.
Posted on 8/29/18 at 5:21 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
While it's clearly true that (even modest) carb consumption can lead to immediate fluid retention, most people lose that water weight on keto IN ADDITION TO actual fat. This isn't complicated - go keto, lose the first 5 almost overnight, lose the next 5 in the next 2 weeks.
I was assuming you knew I was speaking in addition to.
quote:
body of evidence is growing that sugar (i.e. carbs) is what contributes to cancer and Alzheimer's (we know it's what causes diabetes). Stated differently - carbs are bad for you.
The studies are that glycogen feeds cancer but is not the cause of. Protein also converts to glycogen. Alzheimer's is genetic I believe and it can't convert glucose to brain fuel. Not that it causes it. Ketones would be an alternative to glucose but glucose is not bad.
quote:
true for "regular" people. I do think it's true that for ultra-high-performance athletes, sugar can be used as a PED to put a slightly higher peak on already-high performance
There is no difference in a high performance athlete and a regular person on how something is utilized. Peak performances will still happen to both. 5% increase on an average Joe is not worth much but it is at high levels when everyone else is at or near 100%.
This post was edited on 8/29/18 at 5:27 pm
Posted on 8/29/18 at 5:39 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
quote:Interesting, I will try to find something on that. The most recent I've read is that "type 3 diabetes" can be directly linked to ingested sugar.
Alzheimer's is genetic I believe and it can't convert glucose to brain fuel.
quote:
There is no difference in a high performance athlete and a regular person on how something is utilized. Peak performances will still happen to both. 5% increase on an average Joe is not worth much but it is at high levels when everyone else is at or near 100%.
The difference is that a regular person won't notice the tiny bit of potential difference. Protein and fat are plenty enough energy.
Posted on 8/29/18 at 5:55 pm to Big Scrub TX
On average, how much longer do you live not eating any carbs?
Posted on 8/29/18 at 5:58 pm to GeorgeTheGreek
Reminds me of this
Posted on 8/29/18 at 6:01 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
Or indigenous people, in better health than the Western World, largely eating carbs.
But forgive me for being too simple when I say that carbs in moderation won’t kill you.
But forgive me for being too simple when I say that carbs in moderation won’t kill you.
This post was edited on 8/29/18 at 6:03 pm
Posted on 8/30/18 at 5:07 am to GeorgeTheGreek
quote:
On average, how much longer do you live not eating any carbs?
This sort of long-term epidemiological study is very hard to do. I'd say pretty much impossible, with any level of scientific precision. Among many reasons: we are all so inundated with over-carbing, processed oils, and other shitty ingredients, that it's difficult to preserve a reliable and large sample size.
The cutting edge of longevity and health span science = cell biology.
think mTOR (ScienceDirect compilation)
quote:
But forgive me for being too simple when I say that carbs in moderation won’t kill you.
Ok, forgiven. But, what does that mean? Yes, too simple. The term "carb" is sort of meaningless there. What is "moderation"? And being alive inevitably leads to death. I think we're more concerned with health span here.
This post was edited on 8/30/18 at 5:19 am
Posted on 8/30/18 at 8:56 am to McLemore
quote:
The term "carb" is sort of meaningless there.
Not when it’s their main source of energy.
quote:
What is "moderation"?
Not a lot.
Posted on 8/30/18 at 9:45 am to GeorgeTheGreek
They best part of all this is we all agree that everyone should cut down on carbs, especially bad carbs. But they still look at us like carb eating savages.
We even go along with how the body doesn’t need a lot unless you are taxing it.
But then the notion all carbs are bad is just hilarious
There is no middle ground with them.
We even go along with how the body doesn’t need a lot unless you are taxing it.
But then the notion all carbs are bad is just hilarious
There is no middle ground with them.
Posted on 8/30/18 at 10:38 am to StraightCashHomey21
quote:Why the insistence on melodrama? I've made the (at best) marginally controversial claim that ingested carbs are not good for you. I eat carbs. Does that make me a "carb-eating savage"?
They best part of all this is we all agree that everyone should cut down on carbs, especially bad carbs. But they still look at us like carb eating savages.
quote:
But then the notion all carbs are bad is just hilarious
Why must it be true that carbs are good for you? Why are you saying there is no "middle ground"? The very obvious middle ground is I eat some carbs!
Perhaps it will help to talk about fats/oils: the industrial seed oils that have been foisted on us are probably even WORSE for you than carbs. Should eat super-heated soybean oil "in moderation"? If not, why no "middle ground"?
Posted on 8/30/18 at 10:41 am to Big Scrub TX
I don’t touch soybean anything 
Posted on 8/30/18 at 10:42 am to GeorgeTheGreek
quote:
On average, how much longer do you live not eating any carbs?
Not sure but Shawn Baker said on the Rogan podcast an interesting fact. He claims that near 100% of the people who live to be over 100 are red meat eaters. I haven’t verified that data, but impressive nonetheless if true.
Posted on 8/30/18 at 10:44 am to StraightCashHomey21
quote:I eat some edamame. I guess I'm just a soy-savage!
I don’t touch soybean anything
Anyway, I have been meaning to bring bad oils into this discussion. I really do think they are more devastating for health - and in even more pernicious ways.
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