r/zerocarb sort of infuriates me

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Does keto work if you are still consuming a crap load of fatty greasy foods and calories?

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Work in what way? Losing weight? Yeah. It works. Eat 1000 calories of bacon and cheese. You won’t be hungry for the rest of the day.

Optimal health? I don’t think so.

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Also, that much red meat seems like a fast track to pancreatic cancer

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I posted in the Carnivore Diet thread some articles about it. It’s suggested that too much red meat can possibly lead to cancer (colon I think) but it’s not definite. It’s enough to make me think that consuming that much red meat isn’t worth the risk.

o man this is going to be another ketocult vs normal folks battle ground

Its all about finding the correct macro % for your health goals at the time

Protein, fats and carbs all have their places.

The notion some take that carbs are bad for you is hilarious, bc all carbs are not created equal.

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o man this is going to be another ketocult vs normal folks battle ground

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No, it really isn't because I am tired of posting the same info time and time again. The carnivore diet thread was good enough showing how those meat/cancer studies are terrible. You need to except the fact that meat is healthy.

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No, it really isn't because I am tired of posting the same info time and time again. The carnivore diet thread was good enough showing how those meat/cancer studies are terrible. You need to except the fact that meat is healthy.

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when have i ever said otherwise

im not a vegan, i can't stand them. But the keto and carnivore diet side is just as annoying.

My lunch had a chicken breast with cheese, green bell pepper/onions and cheese inside a wrap. Along with broccoli.

Dinner a burrito bowl for taco Tuesday. Substituting jasmine rice and putting zucchini noodles in its place.

90/10 ground beef, Mexican cheese, a large serving of guacamole, lettuce and salsa.

Also snacked on beef jerky all day.

I know meat is healthy

my carbs between those two meals today is 80g tops, got my fats and protein plenty.

Only reason my carbs were higher than usual today is i decided to have some donuts that my new commander brought into work. But that won't have any lasting negative effects bc its not a regular thing.

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Yea I get that and understand what you are saying. It just seems like of the people on on that subreddit are simple minded in thinking as long as it's low carb it's ok to scarf it down with no regard for anything else.

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They are just like vegans, or paleo cultist

they think their way of dieting is the be all end all truth.

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they think their way of dieting is the be all end all truth

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I tend to think most "diets" inspire this. So many of them are built around the sales pitch that there's one magic variable that you manipulate for results.

People lock into the gospel that the diet promoters sell and they wind up thinking there's only one way.

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Link?

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Go peruse the Carnivore Diet thread. Junky is hackneyed in his responses and didn’t once address any of the sources I posted. He’s under the impression that humans should only eat meat and that plant foods are unnatural for human consumption.

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I am tired of posting the same info time and time again.

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by Junky

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Thank God.

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You need to except the fact that meat is healthy.

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Also you need to accept the fact that this is an egregious grammatical error.

I finally got my 23andme back, and I don't have any APOE4 copies.

So, that result frees me up a bit to eat more worry-free saturated fat, as that gene is associated with LDL hyper-response (which may or may not be a cause of CVD, but high LDL-P nos are still at least associated with some increased risk--also, btw, having two copies of it is associated with i think an 11x higher Alzheimer's risk).

However, Rhonda Patrick's site's analysis of my results discusses two genes w SNPs (single nucleotide polymorphisms) that make me want to continue making meat and SFA just a part of a more balanced fat and protein approach.

I haven't analyzed this very much yet, but one SNP could be associated with increased Alzheimer's risk from too much free iron, and another is associated with some negative SFA response (although, I'm not sure how well that is controlled for a super-low-carb intake subset).

My LDL-P NMR profile bears that out somewhat. My ave particle size is good (big) and the number of small LDL-P is very low--which are both awesome results, and likely the most important of the figures in that panel (besides my 1:1 trig:HDL, which you don't need and NMR test to see).

But my overall LDL-P count is slightly "elevated." Most experts in the lipoprotein field today say that is a fine state, assuming low small/dense particle numbers and good particle size, but I'd rather hedge my bets and get/keep LDL-P number a little lower. I probably have actually since that test--I've been focusing on more mono and omega 3 PUFA.

As we've discussed on this board, researchers are finding that LDL is neuroprotective (some good studies on Parkinson's), so I'm in no way concerned about a slightly elevated overall LDL number. LDL is NOT "bad cholesterol." That over-simplification to the point of inaccuracy is IMO very dangerous.

All of this to say, I sort of agree with you. I see no evidence that going that extreme is of any benefit for MOST people (I can't speak to people like Jordan Peterson's daughter who has responded incredibly to an all-meat diet due to her condition). And the sourcing of the meat is probably an issue too. (Not an argument against carnivore per se, but it's something to consider.)

To me, the potential harm is in making your diet so one dimensional that the average person eventually quits it. I'm not sure that's a great argument against carnivore/zero-carb either, but my family and I would never stick to that. And it's just socially weird, which is something to take into account, since we live in...society.

Also, as I mentioned yesterday, eschewing a wide array of wonderful green and other colorful things that grow in the ground seems terribly counterintuitive for health. Caveat: I don't like appeals to "common sense" eating, because our common sense is mostly stupid and skewed by bad "science" and advice. Nor do I like appeals to, "if it grows in the ground, then it's healthy," because that's obviously totally untrue.

But there are so many powerful micronutrients in plant-based foods that I would never dream of going zero-carb, for that reason alone (and if the "zero carb" folks are going to be purists, then they really couldn't even eat meat because it has some carbs).

Does the average person NEED carbs to thrive? Meh, mostly no. But that's a tricky question. I think zero-carbers are missing out on some benefits of foods that contain carbs (in relatively low amounts, usually--and a lot of these foods are typically eaten in small quantities anyway--I'm not going to binge on turmeric and ginger, for e.g.), and I think the body can benefit from high-intensity exercise that can utilize properly administered carbs.